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TOP 40 VORP: Brian Harper

Posted by SBG on Thursday, February 22nd, 2007 at 9:37 pm

The Top 40 VORP list continues with the player that accumulated the 22nd highest VORP total as a member of the Minnesota Twins, Brian Harper.

Brian Harper was a catcher with the Minnesota Twins from 1988-93. Harper was an unlikely member of this list. He kicked around with five different teams before he hooked on with the Twins. For the six seasons that he wore a Twins uniform, Harper was a quality major league player and his performance was absolutely stunning. After he left the Twins, Harper was quickly out of the game. But, for those six years, Harper lived the dream. And in 1991, he was a member of the World Champions. He also provided one of the most memorable moments of that great regular season.



brian_harper_autograph.jpg
6’2 195 LBS. Batted Right and Threw Right. Born 1959 in Los Angeles, CA.
Member of the Twins from 1988-93 Uniform #12
VORP as a Twin: 141.9 Rank: 22nd

Year Ag G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP VORP
1979 19 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0.000 0.000 0.000 -100 0 0 0 0 0 0
1981 21 4 11 1 3 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0.273 0.250 0.273 51 3 0 1 0 0 0
1982 22 20 29 4 8 1 0 2 4 0 0 1 4 0.276 0.300 0.517 123 15 1 0 1 0 1
1983 23 61 131 16 29 4 1 7 20 0 0 2 15 0.221 0.232 0.427 77 56 2 4 0 1 3
1984 24 46 112 4 29 4 0 2 11 0 0 5 11 0.259 0.300 0.348 82 39 1 1 0 2 4
1985 25 43 52 5 13 4 0 0 8 0 0 2 3 0.250 0.273 0.327 68 17 0 1 0 0 2
1986 26 19 36 2 5 1 0 0 3 0 0 3 3 0.139 0.200 0.167 2 6 1 1 0 0 1
1987 27 11 17 1 4 1 0 0 3 0 0 0 4 0.235 0.222 0.294 40 5 1 1 0 0 1
1988 28 60 166 15 49 11 1 3 20 0 3 10 12 0.295 0.344 0.428 113 71 2 1 1 3 12 8.5
1989 29 126 385 43 125 24 0 8 57 2 4 13 16 0.325 0.353 0.449 119 173 4 4 3 6 11 28.3
1990 30 134 479 61 141 42 3 6 54 3 2 19 27 0.294 0.328 0.432 106 207 0 4 2 7 20 22.1
1991 31 123 441 54 137 28 1 10 69 1 2 14 22 0.311 0.336 0.447 111 197 2 6 3 6 14 28.8
1992 32 140 502 58 154 25 0 9 73 0 1 26 22 0.307 0.343 0.410 108 206 1 10 7 7 15 28.5
1993 33 147 530 52 161 26 1 12 73 1 3 29 29 0.304 0.347 0.425 105 225 0 5 9 9 15 25.7
1994 34 64 251 23 73 15 0 4 32 0 2 9 18 0.291 0.318 0.398 80 100 0 4 1 3 8
1995 35 2 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0.000 0.000 0.000 -100 0 0 0 0 0 0
Twins 730 2503 283 767 156 6 48 346 7 15 111 128 0.306 0.342 0.431 1079 9 30 25 38 87 141.9
Other 271 648 56 164 30 1 15 82 1 2 22 60 0.253 0.279 0.372 241 6 13 2 6 20
Career 1001 3151 339 931 186 7 63 428 8 17 133 188 0.295 0.329 0.419 1320 15 43 27 44 107

Brian Harper was drafted by the California Angels in the fourth round of the 1977 amateur draft. Harper began to hit immediately in the minors. At the rookie league at the age of 17, Harper hit .323/.371/.419/.790. He continued to hit. Over the next two years, Harper hit .304/.358/.489/.847 in one year at A and one at AA. Harper got a cup of coffee as a 19 year old, but then repeated AA as a 20 year old. As a 21 year old in 1981, Harper hit .350/.396/.617/1.103 with 28 home runs in 549 at bats. He was rewarded with 11 at bats with the Angels. Harper was traded to the Pirates before the 1982 season and languished again at AAA. Harper got 243 at bats in Pittsburgh over the course of 1983-84. Over the next three seasons, he was part of the St. Louis, Detroit, and Oakland organizations. He got four at bats in four games and a single hit.

The Twins signed Brian Harper as a free agent on January 4, 1988. He started at AAA Portland and made his Twins debut on May 29, 1989. He played a backup role to All-Star Tim Laudner. Laudner actually had a good season in 1989, but in 1990, he regressed and Harp became the starting catcher. Harper responded with a .325/.353/.449/.802 line, which was good for 28.3 VORP in just 385 at bats. The 1990 Twins were a last place team, but Harper was a much better answer at catcher.

The 1991 Twins started slowly, and after after 11 games, the Twins sat at 2-9. Things looked pretty bleak. The next day, the Twins beat the Angels to improve to 3-9. I happened to see Andy McPhail in the concourse of the Metrodome after the game and I was tempted to give him Hell about his poor off-season. Sometimes your best decisions are to take no action. I kept my mouth shut.

Harper didn’t start poorly, though. He was hitting .296/.333/.519 after eleven games. Through the end of May, Harper was hitting .339/.365/.496/.861. The Twins were scuffling along at 23-25, in fifth place in the West, 5.5 games behind Texas and three time American League Champion Oakland. The Twins would win their next 15 games and 19 of 20 and Harper continued to hit as the Twins vaulted into first place. If you enjoyed the Twins run in 2006, you would have enjoyed the Twins 1991 run. Like in 2006, the 1991 AL West was very strong. As I said before, the A’s were a three time pennant winner. Although they had won just one World Series in that stretch, they were clearly the best team in baseball for that time. Any self-respecting Twins fan hated them.

But, it wasn’t just the A’s. The entire seven team division finished the season at or above .500. This was a loaded division. Make no mistake, though, the team to beat was the A’s. They had Canseco, McGwire, Dave Henderson, Rickey Henderson, and Harold Baines. McGwire had a terrible season (.201/.330/.383). But, the A’s were still formidable. The Twins went to Oakland on August 2, with a four game lead. On Friday night, the A’s won, cutting the Twins lead to three games. On Saturday, August 3rd, I went to work in the morning and was planning to drive to South Dakota that afternoon to visit my brother, Putzer. I left work late in the afternoon and I stopped to fill up with gas. I heard John Gordon say that the Twins trailed 4-0 on four solo home runs. Dave Henderson had homered twice off of starter David West and the game seemed to be out of hand. I started to drive west and south and things got worse. In the bottom of the seventh, Jose Canseco homered to stretch the lead to 5-0. The Twins were about to lose and allow Oakland to pull within two games. In the top of the eighth, things changed. Here’s the play-by-play.

TWINS 8TH:
Larkin flied to left;
Gagne walked;
Mack singled to left [Gagne to second];
Knoblauch doubled to left [Gagne scored, Mack to third];
Puckett singled to shortstop [Mack scored, Knoblauch scored];
KLINK REPLACED SLUSARSKI (PITCHING);
Hrbek walked [Puckett to second];
Davis singled [Puckett scored, Hrbek to second];
CAMPBELL REPLACED KLINK (PITCHING);
Harper homered [Hrbek scored, Davis scored];
Pagliarulo flied to left;
Larkin walked;
GLADDEN RAN FOR LARKIN;
Gagne struck out;
7 R, 5 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Twins 7, Athletics 5.

When Harper hit that home run, I started honking my horn as I sped along the prairie. It was unbelievable – the Twins had withstood all the A’s could give, five homeruns by the testosterone brothers. They didn’t give up. When Harper hit that home run, the A’s were effectively beaten back. Henderson hit his third home run of the game in the eighth, but it wasn’t enough. The Twins had won the game of the year, and Harper was the hero. Of course, the Twins went on to win the World Series, and Harper hit .381/.435/.476/.910 in the series.

Harper’s 1991 season was emblematic of what he provided for the Twins. He hit .311/.336/.447 and had a career high 28.8 VORP. He walked just 14 times in 441 at bats, but he struck out just 22 times. Harper was the anti-three true outcomes player. As a Twin, Harper hit just 48 home runs, walked 111 times, and struck out just 128 times in 2503 at bats.

He had five seasons as a regular and accumulated between 22 and 29 VORP in each of them. He was an amazingly efficient and productive player. Consider that he had virtually the same VORP as Torii Hunter in 2503 at bats as compared to Hunter’s 3892 at bats. Of course, Harper wasn’t exactly known for his defense. Nevertheless, he WARP3 numbers during his prime were better than Hunter’s.

The Twins let Harper go after the 1993 season and he signed a contract with the Milwaukee Brewers. Harper was hindered by a calf injury after moving to the Brewers in 1994, and in late June was struck by a Ken Ryan pitch, fracturing his wrist and ending his season. In 1995, he played in just 2 games for Oakland and didn’t get a hit. His career was over.

Harper played in 16 different major league seasons. But, consider that in the 10 seasons when he wasn’t wearing a Twins uniform, he averaged fewer than 65 at bats, about 16 hits, and one and a half home runs. He was nothing more than a bit player. But, for six seasons, he was a major contributor on some good teams, including a World Championship team in 1991 and a very good 1992 team. It’s amazing really that an extremely slow, poor defensive player who never walked was so effective. He was, from 1989 to 1993, 3rd, 4th, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th among AL catchers in VORP. He never played in the All-Star game, unlike his predecessor (TK how come not in 1992?). But, Brian Harper has more VORP accumulated than any other catcher in Twins history.

One final note. Harper played more games and had more at bats in the minors than he did in the majors. Appropriately enough, he now toils away as the manager of the Salt Lake Bees, the LAA AAA affiliate.

Brian Harper, who led the Salt lake Bees to an 81-63 record and a Pacific Coast League Pacific North Division title last season, will return for a second season, the parent Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim announced Monday. Also back are hitting coach Jim Eppard, pitching coach Charles Nagy and trainer Armando Rivas.

Harper, before taking over the Bees in 2006, spent five seasons as the manager of the Angels' rookie affiliate, the Mesa Angels, in the Arizona Summer League. During his time with Mesa, Harper led the Angels to a 115-165 record.

Maybe someday Harper’ll get a shot as a major league manager. I have a feeling that he’ll surprise a few people and be an unlikely success.


This entry was posted by SBG on Thursday, February 22nd, 2007 at 9:37 pm and is filed under Minnesota Twins, Top 40 VORP. It is one of 2393 entries by the author. We are no longer accepting Letters to the Editor on this post. Why?

43 LTEs

brianS
brianS replied on February 22nd, 2007 at 10:34 pm

Earl Who?????

SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 10:56 am

That joke ain't going away.

 
 
ubelmann
ubelmann replied on February 22nd, 2007 at 11:23 pm

Score '91 is one of my favorite card sets of all-time.

CarterHayes
CarterHayes replied on February 22nd, 2007 at 11:45 pm

Likewise. I never particularly cared for the layout of the stats on the back, but the full-color look and couple paragraph blurb were great features Topps completely missed the boat on.

 
Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 7:12 am

Those black borders are a bear to keep edge and corner wear from showing.

Except for Harp's arm and baserunning "speed", you couldn't ask for a better catcher. Well, unless you have the #1 draft available in the right year, that is.

Too bad in time he'll end up forgotten, eh SBG?

SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 10:58 am

Tough crowd. You throw one member of the Minnesota Twins Hall of Fame into the dust bin of history and you never hear the end of it.

 
ubelmann
ubelmann replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 12:03 pm

Eh, a little wear just gives the cards some character. Harper wasn't perfect, his baseball card shouldn't be, either. :)

 
 
 
CarterHayes
CarterHayes replied on February 22nd, 2007 at 11:40 pm

Ask most Twins fans who was the more valuable Twin, and nine out of ten would probably pick Hunter. Hunter will pass Harp this year, but it will have taken him all of eight season to do what Harp did in six.

I'm rather surprised that Harp leads Hunter in WARP3 as well. I know Harper's defense was more maligned than it should have been. My guess is that he was probably average behind the dish, with the arm off-set by other qualities, like blocking pitches and calling a game (though I don't know if the second point is necessarily the case). I'm pretty sure he had a better arm than Laudner.

What I remember most about Harper, and what made him such a wondeful and exciting player, was how clutch he seemed to be. Apart from the game you outlined in the post, the plate defenses in the World Series certainly spring readily to mind. I don't have premium access to baseball-reference's Player Index, but I do see he had 137 RBI in 2-out situations. Someone with better resources or grasp of "clutch" evaluation should feel free to pick me apart on this, but it seems I remember quite a few occasions where Harper came through with the big hit.

Like I said in the Battey post, Harper was my role model as a kid playing catcher. I remember an television advertisement he did (in 1993, I think) where he continually distracted the opposing batter with a running monologue that started with "Hi! Welcome to Minnesota..." and wound up with the batter striking out. I cribbed this bit of shtick and used it in my own catching endeavors until my league's umps made me knock it off. Too effective, just like in Harp's commercial.

Harp was a fun player to watch, and a fantastic (and unlikely) success story. Kind of symbolic of that 1991 team, in a way. I hope he does get a managerial job some day.

Diggity Dino
Diggity Dino replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 7:29 am

When I was in elementary school we for some reason had the class assignment to write a letter to our favorite Twin. I wrote to Brian Harper, and I was the first one in the whole class to get a response (we put a SASE in our letter if I recall). Made me love him even more.

It's amazing the games you remember. The A's game you mention is the one I remember from the 1991 (regular) season. The Jacque Jones HR to beat Garcia's 1-hitter falls in the same category. From this past season, for me, the game I remember is the one against the White Sox where Jermaine Dye homered for Nathan's blown save, and somehow Willie Eyre saved it as the only guy in the pen left. I remember Bartlett making a few jaw-dropping defensive plays.

ubelmann
ubelmann replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 12:14 pm

That was this game. I actually remember the game the day before somewhat more fondly. The Twins had to battle through Radke only making it two innings (with his arm clearly falling off), AJP came through with a WWE-like turn of events in the middle of the game, JB came through with the GW RBI in the ninth and Nathan shut 'em down.

I remember both games as being pretty epic, though. It kind of seemed like a turning point in the season because Liriano and Radke were out by the third inning of the first game, and it was to the point where you really had to wonder how much more the Twins could withstand and keep winning, but they were able to take two big games out of three with their biggest rival. (The Tigers might have been better last year, but the White Sox are still the biggest rival.) Anyway, good times.

 
 
 
Moss replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 12:30 am

One of Moss' favorite players...and Moss is surprised that he is ahead of Hunter.

Nice piece of work, SBG!

 
New Britain Bo
New Britain Bo replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 6:36 am

Another excellent vignette by the Stick.

If you ever decide to podcast these, my choice would be sepia-toned, war-time reel-to-reel movie format.

 
Scot
Scot replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 7:02 am

Harper had a bit of a different batting stance. He turned his knees in towards each other. It was a fun one to duplicate in backyard wiffle ball.

My single memory of Harper is the play at the plate in the World Series, the one where Lonnie Smith (?) tackled him, but Harp held on.

Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 12:12 pm

I've actually used Harp's stance at times during the softball season. It can help keep your shoulders aligned when going into your swing.

 
 
SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 8:07 am

Two things I wanted to mention but forgot:

After that fateful August game, my brother and I decided that night that the Twins would win the World Series.

Also, in my mind's eye, I remember Harper looking funny at the plate. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it was the stance, right, Scot, it was that his knees were turned way in. Plus, he ran kind of funny.

 
Banjo
Banjo replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 9:05 am

I think a mini-tribute to the 'stache might be in order. Of course, when this series is finshed you could always start a Top 40 All-Time Facial Hair tribute.

 
SDfan
SDfan replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 10:27 am

What I don't get is how a guy who hit that well in the minors was traded so many times. A 21 year old catcher hits .350/.396/.617/1.103 with 28 home runs in 549 at bats at AA, and he gets traded in the offseason?

I realize that the running game was far mor important during that era, and that perhaps his throwing arm was more of a negative than it would be today, but still - how does a guy who performed that well at a young age in the minors get traded 4 times and be given virtually no shot at the majors? It makes me appreciate what he did for the Twins all the more; he had to persevere through some pretty trying circumstances, it seems.

As their broadcasts were rarely available on TV, I listened to most of the '91 Twins games on the radio. Harper and Mack were both big contributors to that team, and both were castoffs from other teams. The third-base platoon of Scott Leius and Mike Pagliarulo was pretty productive, and wasn't that the year Carl Willis came out of nowhere to serve as a great setup man? I'm getting old, and my memory isn't the best, so these articles stir up some nice memories. Thanks for a great article, SBG.

 
SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 10:48 am

We're gonna talk about Shane Mack in a future article.

brianS
brianS replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 11:15 am

Mack is on my short list of shoulda-coulda-woulda Twins who never achieved true "star" status (Castino, because of the injuries; and Bostock, because of his tragic murder, also are charter members).

Perhaps that is unfair to Mack, who had a very, very good 5-year run during his prime age bracket (26-30) with the Twins. He was putting up All Star-worthy numbers during that run OPS+ of 132, 140, 138, 98, 147; comparable to Kirby's best 5-year stretch). But he was such a "toolsy" player, I wondered why he never made "the leap" to iconic status and performance.

I'm looking forward to your take on him, SBG.

SDfan
SDfan replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 11:20 am

If my memory is correct, Mack had been on the Olympic team prior to his professional days, and had a very bright future until an arm injury sidelined him. I can't remember what his original team was - I'm thinking Cleveland or something like that. I believe both he and Pagliarulo had visible scars on their elbows evidencing surgeries.

Mack was a wonderful athlete - he was so fluid and graceful in the field, and just had the perfect baseball player build. Pre-steroids Barry Bonds - lithe and flexible but also powerful. Man that was a fun team to watch listen to on the radio.

brianS
brianS replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 11:24 am

I don't remember the arm injury. But I sure do remember him leaving for friggin' Japan after the 1994 season while he was still in his prime.

Mack might well have been the Twins second-best Rule 5 acquisition ever :-)

 
SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 1:53 pm

I think Mack played in the Padre organization. Interesting that he never made "star status" but his VORP is higher than another center fielder, who is the FOTF. Mack was a huge part of that 1991 team. He had nearly the highest VORP on the team and by far the highest VORPr.

Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 2:16 pm

Mack was like the anti-Hunter; he was such a quiet guy (my impression, maybe). He got the job done, and didn't have to advertize it to anyone. And he played at a time when no one was going to toss the FotF label at him, too.

SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 2:21 pm

There's another dynamic there, too. Mack quietly pushed the iconic center fielder into right field. Imagine a rule V player doing that today.

(LTEs wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
brianS
brianS replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 11:20 am

Oh yea. And Jim Eisenreich. Damn. I loved that guy. Minnesota boy who came up during desperate times for Twins fans and looked like he could become a superstar to pair with Hrbek. Tourette's is a cruel disorder. I was really happy for the guy that he was able to make it back -- and make a solid career in the Majors -- even if not with the Twinkies.

 
Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 12:08 pm

If Bostock were to have achieved true "star" status, it wouldn't have been as a Twin; he was already on the Angels when he was murdered.

I remember Bobby Darwin as a shoulda-coulda-woulda Twin, and was too young to remember hearing how/why he faded away.

brianS
brianS replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 12:52 pm

re: Bostock. Yes, I know. But I still often root for the "alumni".

Darwin didn't become an established major leaguer until he was already 29. It's tough to improve much from your starting point when age is robbing you of your physical abilities.

--signed as an amateur FA in 1962 by the Angels. Waived in spring of 1963 and signed by the Orioles.
--Rule V draftee by the Dodgers in 1968
--traded to the Twins after the 1971 season (his age 28 season; he had 23 career PA in the majors by that point)

Darwin was a pitcher in the Minors. Over 9 seasons and all levels, he was 42-50 with a 3.83 ERA, 8.11 K/9 and 6.36 BB/9 in 153 appearances. His last gasp as a pitcher was in 1969 at Spokane (AAA): 0-6 with a 6.49 ERA over 61.0 innings (plus, inexplicably, 3.2 innings with the Dodgers, where he gave up 4 runs on 4 hits and 5 BBs with zero Ks).

the Dodgers sent him to high-A Bakersfield in 1970 to become an outfielder. In 303 AB, he hit 23 HRs and had a .297 BA. They promoted him to AAA Spokane in 1971 where he hit .293 with 17 HRs in 321 ABs before getting a late call-up. The rest, as they say, is history.

 
 
 
 
SDfan
SDfan replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 am

By the way, from the picture on his card, it's apparent that Brian didn't get cheated on his swings. That is a vicious looking hack - which makes it even more impressive that he struck out at such an astonishingly low rate.

 
spycake
spycake replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 1:43 pm

It should be noted that Harper's monster minor league seasons were in the Pacific Coast League and also with El Paso of the Texas League (a PCL-like environment). And from the looks of the things, he was primarily a corner OF/DH/1B/3B type guy before he came to the Twins -- he only had 4 appearances as a catcher out of 205 total ML games when he signed with the Twins.

Additionally, when he was traded at age 21, it was straight-up for a starting ML shortstop (Tim Foli), and when he was traded to the Cardinals a few years later, it looks like he was an important component of the relative blockbuster John Tudor for George Hendrick swap.

I strongly suspect he may have had some injuries during his Pittsburgh years, and then the Cardinals cast him as a pinch-hit specialist in '85 (they actually used him 4 times in the '85 World Series in that role, after giving him only 52 AB during the regular season). And at ages 26 and 27, he finally got significant minor league at-bats again but his performance had notably slipped from his earlier numbers. He just wasn't quite the same player that he had been pre-1983.

Finding a home at catcher in Minnesota seemed to be just what the doctor ordered.

Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Wow - Harp got some ABs in the '85 Series? I wasn't aware of that.

 
SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 2:13 pm

Good stuff, spycake, I missed that part on the catching. Harper's success in Minnesota was truly remarkable. When you consider the money involved -- Harper made almost nothing in baseball until he collected about $5 million playing for the Twins -- it was like hitting the lottery.

 
 
Nate Tubbs Rules
Nate Tubbs Rules replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 4:28 pm

Keep em coming SBG, I've been following both AG's top 40 and your list of VORP and its definitely interesting to see. After AG started his list a year ago, I created my own top40 which has now ballooned to top300. I'd be curious to see who didn't quite make your cut with VORPs in the 41-45 list so that I can try and figure out how someone like Jacque Jones (as a guess) has a lower VORP than Mike Trombley or how close someone like Dean Chance was to someone like Jerry Koosman.

SBG
SBG replied on February 23rd, 2007 at 5:48 pm

Here's the "just missed". Nathan is now 0.5 VORP from being in the top 40.

41 Joe Nathan
42 Tom Brunansky
43 Kyle Lohse
44 Leo Cardenas
45 Lyman Bostock
46 Juan Rincon
47 Latroy Hawkins
48 Greg Gagne
49 Don Mincher
50 Jack Kralick

Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 24th, 2007 at 8:35 am

It pains me to see Lohse ahead of Leo Cardenas.

spycake
spycake replied on February 24th, 2007 at 8:56 am

VORP alone doesn't quantify defense, though. That could be HUGE for Gagne, and to a lesser extent, Cardenas. There's no way that Gagne contributed less to the Twins in his 7+ seasons here than Hawkins did over similar time.

SBG
SBG replied on February 24th, 2007 at 9:07 am

Listing players by VORP has some inherent weaknesses, which I freely acknowledge... the biggest one is no defense. The advantage it provides is that players who make large impacts over a relatively short period of time move up over players who accumulate counting stats for no other reason than they played a long time, for whatever reason.

brianS
brianS replied on February 24th, 2007 at 12:29 pm

I think Gagne's WARP3 with the Twins adds up to 30.8. Hawkins' 30.3.

I was a big Gagne fan, but he was no superstar. His FRAA was negative six different times with the Twins. In other words, he was around average as a ML shortstop defensively. He had some pop in his bat, but a pretty weak OBP. All that adds up to a decent, dependable player.

(LTEs wont nest below this level)
Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 24th, 2007 at 3:11 pm

Well, I think many of us have been longing for a time when "decent" and "dependable" could be used to describe our SS. Hopefully those days have returned again.

 
brianS
brianS replied on February 24th, 2007 at 3:19 pm

true, true. Gagne was better than his successor, Pat Meares. And, I think it can be argued, considerably better than Guzman.

I'm hoping that Bartlett will be able to Earl Battey Gagne's memory, however :-)

 
SBG
SBG replied on February 24th, 2007 at 4:22 pm

Way better than Guzman.

 
Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on February 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pm

I’m hoping that Bartlett will be able to Earl Battey Gagne’s memory, however

+10 brianS

SBG, we're gonna need a WGOM lexicon to help folks keep up with the half-baked technical terms thrown around here. We wouldn't want Rifding Hokme to be Earl Battied! (didn't know a catcher could be past-tensed like that)

 
SBG
SBG replied on February 24th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

Bertin' A, Rhu_Ru.

 
New Britain Bo
New Britain Bo replied on February 24th, 2007 at 8:37 pm

There's no Earl Batteying th' Gagne/Knoblauch fake double play in '91WS Game 7 forcing Lonnie Smith to slide in at 2B.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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