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Cup of Coffee: November 29, 2007

Cup of Coffee It ain't a blockbuster like, say, the Batista signing, but this trade sure gives us something to talk about.

This entry was posted by SBG on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 at 6:14 am and is filed under Cup of Coffee. It is one of 3089 entries by the author. We are no longer accepting Letters to the Editor on this post.

34 comments to Cup of Coffee: November 29, 2007

  • Jeff A
    November 29th, 2007 at 7:55 am

    Keeping up with the ex-Twins: Washington signs Chad Moeller.

  • Jeff A
    November 29th, 2007 at 7:56 am

    Not that I find it particularly significant, but since I haven't seen it mentioned here, I will note that the Twins signed Howie Clark to a minor league contract.

  • Jeff A
    November 29th, 2007 at 8:34 am

    By the way, BabySBG gets cuter all the time. Before you know it, you won't be able to call her BabySBG any more.

    • SBG
      November 29th, 2007 at 8:39 am

      She'll always be my baby. Smile

      BabySBG is progressing rather nicely. She started to crawl two days after she turned six months. A couple of weeks ago, she started pulling herself up into the standing position. She can negotiate a couple of steps now. Wow, she's going to be something!

  • kg2005
    November 29th, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    So assuming we trade Santana, whose the opening day starter? Scott Baker?

  • ubelmann
    November 29th, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Kevin Goldstein runs down the Yankees' top 11 prospects, and then lists their top 10 young players (under 25):

    1. Philip Hughes, RHP
    2. Joba Chamberlain, RHP
    3. Ian Kennedy, RHP
    4. Austin Jackson, OF
    5. Jose Tabata, OF
    6. Alan Horne, RHP
    7. Dellin Betances, RHP
    8. Jesus Montero, C
    9. Melky Cabrera, OF
    10. Andrew Brackman, RHP

    I’m confused as to how Philip Hughes went from the best pitching prospect in the game, to a guy who almost threw a no-hitter, to a guy people wanted to start throwing under the bus as he tried to re-find his groove after a pair of severe injuries. Don’t believe the anti-hype--he’s still a stud. On the other hand, there is Cabrera, who hopefully by now has proven to the Yankees that he’s a really nice fourth outfielder, but a liability offensively when you play him every day.

    BTW, Cabrera had an 89 OPS+ last year as a 22-year old, following a 95 OPS+ last year as a 21-year old, while Delmon Young had a 91 OPS+ last year as a 21-year old. Oh, and did I mention that Melky Cabrera plays CF and doesn't strike out once every five at-bats? I know, I know, DY will probably wind up as a better hitter than Melky, but I'm not sure that he winds up as a better player.

  • AMR
    November 29th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    I think one vastly underrated part of this trade is that the Twins will now be featured more frequently in the Dugout.

    His handle is "DudeYourGettingADelmon" and his All-Star Brother is "SteakGrowsOnDmitri".
    That second one still makes me laugh a little.

  • kg2005
    November 29th, 2007 at 3:24 pm

    These new reports about the Red Sox don't sit well with me. What is there to like about Jon Lester? If we settle for a package involving Lester, Crisp, and Lowrie I'm going to be upset.

    • ubelmann
      November 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pm

      I'd be surprised to see the Twins value Lester very highly, given his control problems. He does miss bats reasonably well, though. Buchholz seems more likely to me to be targeted by the Twins. Also, the Red Sox would rather give up Crisp than Ellsbury, so something like Buchholz, Crisp, and Lowrie or Lester, Ellsbury, and Lowrie could maybe be on the table. Once the Boston media starts to get involved, though, it's difficult to say what is actually being discussed.

      I like that there are rumors out of Boston, though. The more that we can make Hank Steinbrenner paranoid that Santana is going to the Red Sox, the more we can pry out of the Yankees. That's really our best leverage here.

      • kg2005
        November 29th, 2007 at 3:37 pm

        I agree that having them fight each other works out the best for us. Like you said, I'd be okay if we could upgrade one of those players in the package. I seriously doubt we'll be getting both, but it's a little scary that the Twins are thinking the Lester/Crisp package is the best offer to date when Hughes is on the table.

        • twayn
          November 29th, 2007 at 4:01 pm

          There is another strategy that may be in play here. Boston and the Yankees could each be trying to bluff the other to fold their hand, without actually intending to complete a deal for Santana. Let's face it, both teams expect to contend for a WS title every year. They both have the cash to bid for Santana as a free agent after 2008, and one of them would likely win. Neither team wants to give up their top young talent (Ellsbury/Buchholz, Cano/Chamberlain) in a trade, and have basically put them off-limits. For either team in 2008, keeping the other from acquiring Santana would be a winning move, even if they don't get him for themselves.

          • ubelmann
            November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pm

            That's certainly a possibility. It depends on how much they value the certainty that they will have Santana and the other won't, which is something that we can't know.

            One angle that I'd sort of forgotten about and haven't mentioned is that even if they sign Santana as a free agent, he's (very likely) going to cost either team their first-round draft pick. So the net difference between, say, giving up a 23-year old Clay Buchholz and drafting a top college senior hurler (who fell due to signability concerns) in the 2009 draft maybe isn't that big.

            Of Ellsbury/Buchholz/Cano/Chamberlain, I'd bet that only Ellsbury and Joba are actually off limits. Buchholz is very good, but the Red Sox could justify the swap in that Santana is better than Buchholz from a talent standpoint, and their rotation would then be Beckett/Santana/Dice-K/Schilling/Lester. (The no-hitter does artificially hurt the Twins' chances of his availability.) Cano is really good, but he'll be arb-eligible soon, and I don't know that the Yankees are really all that attached to him. If push came to shove, I think he'd be available.

            Joba is too high profile for the Yankees to give up only for him to become a stud down the road. (If Hughes, for instance, becomes a stud down the road, their fans would probably forgive them for that, figuring "who could have known that?" while most Yankees fans assume that Joba is the new Walter Johnson.) Similarly, Ellsbury played too high profile of a role last year for the Red Sox for them to let him go. They'd just as soon move Crisp to make room for Ellsbury in CF.

          • GreekHouse
            November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm

            I'm guessing that any team bidding on Santana is going to want to get him to commit to signing an extension before pulling the trigger. I also doubt that either the Red Sox or the Yanks would want to see the other get Santana--even for a year.

            • twayn
              November 29th, 2007 at 5:02 pm

              I also doubt that either the Red Sox or the Yanks would want to see the other get Santana--even for a year.

              And that represents both the opportunity and the risk for Trader Smith. If the Yanks and Sox are serious trade partners (which I believe they are), he can perhaps leverage one against the other to sweeten the pot. But if both are pursuing a Fabian strategy in hopes of keeping the other from acquiring Santana this year, that could really blow up in Smith's face. He'd lose the top two suitors and be forced to deal elsewhere, probably getting less value, or keep Santana for 2008, possibly trading him before the deadline (when he wouldn't get as good a return as he could now) or keeping him though the whole season and nabbing a 1st round draft pick when he walks. Plus, the last-minute swap of Morlan for Rincon in the Rays deal was a tell that Cashman and Epstein will note. It shows that Smith may be a bit too eager to make deals right now and that could be exploited to our disadvantage.

              • ubelmann
                November 29th, 2007 at 5:19 pm

                ...and nabbing a 1st round draft pick when he walks.

                A first round pick (16-30) and a sandwich pick (~31-50). Guys in the 31-50 range also have very good value. For instance, Buchholz was a 42nd overall pick, Joba was a 41st overall pick, Jed Lowrie was a 45th overall pick, Huston Street was a 40th overall pick, etc. There's more uncertainty there than with a trade, which matters, but it's worth mentioning.

  • davidwatts
    November 29th, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    according to LEN III, the Twins signed RA Dickey to a minor league contract. I wonder if he still throws that 'vulcan' curveball. geeze, his Wiki page is super current

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._A._Dickey

    according to that, he is a knuckballer now

  • GreekHouse
    November 29th, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    Isaiah gonna get canned. Knicks down by 50 on TNT right now.

    • SBG
      November 29th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

      And KG's double figure point streak is ending. He has eight points and hasn't played since midway through three quarters.

      I have NEVER seen an NBA team get beat like this.

      • ubelmann
        November 29th, 2007 at 9:49 pm

        Holy crap. Knicks points by quarter: 16, 15, 10, 18.

      • GreekHouse
        November 29th, 2007 at 11:01 pm

        It was one of the most ridiculous beat downs I've ever seen. Robinson made a half court shot at the buzzer which prevented it from being their worst loss ever. I'd much rather be a Wolves fan than a Knicks fan right now. That team is gonna be in trouble for years.

        Edit: Instead of worst loss, I meant lowest scoring. It may have been close to their worst loss too.

        • SBG
          November 30th, 2007 at 6:51 am

          That Knicks team absolutely did not compete. Garnett, 22 minutes played? There was no point in putting him on the floor. Garbage time started at half time. What an embarrassment for the league that their marquee franchise is an absolute laughingstock.

          Meanwhile, the C's roll on.