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Value Of Compensation Picks…

Posted by ubelmann on Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 am

How much, roughly speaking, are draft compensation picks worth? Back in 2005, Rany Jazayerzli did a gazillion-part study on value in the draft. He largely focused on the college vs. high school angle, which I don't especially care about here, but there were a lot of numbers there to give us ballpark estimates on draft value.

In many cases, a Type A free agent (such as Torii Hunter this year, or Santana/Nathan in 2009) will net a team one pick in the 16-30 range and one pick in the 31-45 range. In the first part of Rany's series, he tallied up how often picks reached the majors, and their career value. In the 16-30 range, you're looking at about a 60-70% chance of the pick reaching the majors--even if it is just for a cup of coffee or "Moonlight Graham" appearance, as Rany puts it--and in the 31-45 range, the rate of reaching the majors is about 40-60%. So between your two compensation picks, it's likely that one of them will reach the majors, but not terribly likely that both of them will reach the majors.

Then, he looked at draft picks' career value by measuring each player's WARP over the first fifteen years after he was drafted to determine a career worth. In the 16-30 range, you're looking at about 10-15 career wins above replacement, and in the 31-45 range, you're looking at about 5-10 career wins above replacement.

Overall, speaking very roughly, out of those two draft picks, you're going to get about 20 wins above replacement. That might not sound like a lot, but it's pretty decent for paying essentially the league minimum to get them. You're certainly most likely to get a superstar in the top 15 picks, but there are plenty of stars around baseball from the 16-45 range. Randy Bush, though blessed with a Hall of Fame name, didn't have Hall of Fame talent, but still made Aaron Gleeman's Top 40 Twins list with just 19 career WARP.

Now, let's consider some of the pieces that are in the Santana discussion. First I'd like to talk about Melky Cabrera. I've heard people describe Cabrera as a 4th outfielder with a terrible track record. I would like to know which league these people are following, because it's a lot better than the American League I know. Melky had an 89 OPS+ last year at the age of 22, and fielded his position in line with league average based on all the defensive statistics I could find. That made him essentially a league average centerfielder, and that's with absolutely zero improvement upon what he's already done. ZiPS has the following forecast for 2008:

.286/.352/.419 -- Melky Cabrera
.272/.336/.425 -- Average CF

That's not much above average, but it's above average. Being a league average CF playing regularly is worth conservatively 5-6 WARP per year.

Now for Philip Hughes. Hughes is a pitcher and Santana is a pitcher, so let's compare their ZiPS projections:

3.70 ERA, 6.8 K/9, 2.6 BB/9, 0.83 HR/9, 141 IP -- Philip Hughes
3.21 ERA, 9.2 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, 1.13 HR/9, 230 IP -- Johan Santana

Is Johan Santana better than Philip Hughes? Absolutely. Is it a huge difference? Figure that you'll have replacement level pitchers throw the 89 IP difference between Santana and Hughes, and give those replacement level pitchers about a 5.50 ERA. Over the total 230 IP, you're looking at Hughes/Scrub giving up 112 runs and Santana giving up 82 runs. That's a difference of 30 runs. That difference gets smaller if Santana pitches less than 30 innings, you can get better relief/spot starter ERA than 5.50, and/or if Hughes can pitch more than 141 innings. So it's a 3-win difference between Hughes and Santana, and roughly a 3-win difference between Hughes and replacement level (if you set replacement level around a 5.50 ERA.) Those both seem a bit low to me (the 10 runs/win scale is pretty rough), so I'd maybe set it as a 4-win difference between Santana/Hughes and a 4-win difference between Hughes/replacement. Either way, that's basically the ballpark you're talking about.

Considering that right now, the Twins are staring at replacement level in CF unless they want to pony up some money for Cameron, Rowand, or Andruw Jones, Santana for Hughes/Cabrera is arguably a wash in terms of wins for this year, and maybe even an improvement of a win or two. After that, it seems quite likely to me that Hughes and Cabrera, even without improving much, could beat the average of 20 wins above replacement that you're likely to get out of the two compensation picks. It also has the advantage of not making us wait 5-6 years for the compensation picks to mature and reach the majors.

I'd like to do the same analysis with the Red Sox' Ellsbury/Lowrie/other offer, but it is late and there are no 2008 ZiPS projections for the Red Sox yet. Suffice it to say that while I think Ellsbury is a little better than Cabrera, I don't think the difference is all that big, and Lowrie looks like a pretty good piece to me, too. I'd probably value Hughes/Cabrera a little more highly than Ellsbury/Lowrie, but they're both probably in the same ballpark.

The Hughes/Cabrera offer isn't so great that the Twins are obviously making a mistake if they walk away from it. It's also not so great that they're obviously getting a huge steal if they make the deal. At this point, I would be tempted to take the deal, even if the third player isn't all that great, just because the Hughes/Cabrera package on its own seems to be about as valuable as Santana in 2008, and will give the Twins a better chance to win in 2009 and 2010 than if they go the Santana->free agency route. And since Ellsbury/Lowrie seems pretty comparable to me, I guess I'd say the same thing about that. Both are pretty reasonable offers, but not something so compelling that I feel they need to do it.

If you made me choose one way or the other, I'd choose for them to make a deal. The timing of adding a couple of early 20s players to the team as opposed to a couple of draft picks just seems to fit better with this roster, and the roster also seems to have enough holes in it that it makes sense to address needs at multiple positions right now.


This entry was posted by ubelmann on Tuesday, December 4th, 2007 at 3:49 am and is filed under Guest Writers, MLB, Minnesota Twins, ubelmann. It is one of 614 entries by the author. We are no longer accepting Letters to the Editor on this post. Why?

14 LTEs

Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on December 4th, 2007 at 6:11 am

This deal is better than a wash for the Twins, because it puts $$$ back in their coffers, which in turn (I hope), will be put in the pockets of Morneau, Cuddyer, (Nathan?), etc. This is the main reason that I am grudgingly in favor of turning Johan around this off season. We fill Johan and Torii's spots on the roster, and are financially more fit for the foreseeable future.

Diggity Dino
Diggity Dino replied on December 4th, 2007 at 9:05 am

Right. If Hughes + Cabrera = Santana (for 2008), it is pretty clear that Hughes + Cabrera + $10 million > Santana. Although my newest hope would be to somehow replace Ellsbury or Crisp with Buchholz (not realistic), which would make the deal something like Lowrie + Lester + Buchholz, and then use the Hunter and Santana funds to sign Andruw Jones to a mid-term (3-4 year) contract. Current contracts not including Johan are only in the $40 million range I believe, which leaves a fair amount of room for a signing or 2. Since really the only good players on the market are CF (Jones, Rowand), I'd think about trying to leave that position open and sign one of them to a 3 or 4 year deal, even if you have to overpay slightly.

 
ubelmann
ubelmann replied on December 4th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

I don't think the money is that big of a deal. If the Twins keep Santana, then they don't have that much money this year, but will have more money over the next 3-4 years when they are paying draft picks instead of major league players. Basically, they aren't paying Santana after this year, so they're going to have more money either way.

The Twins can afford to pay productive players reasonable salaries. By the time they get the stadium, I think they can probably support a couple of $15M-$17M salaries. I'm more worried about securing talented players first, and then getting the salaries worked out later--unless it's a special exception like the player is about to make more money than any pitcher in the history of baseball.

Rhubarb_Runner
Rhubarb_Runner replied on December 4th, 2007 at 4:48 pm

What I'm saying is, if they don't pay Santana this year, that's $13.5M that can be tacked on to offers to Morneau and Cuddyer, right? Might that not be enough to get them locked up? Or at least help bridge that gap?

ubelmann
ubelmann replied on December 4th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

Whatever the Twins would save by not paying Santana this year, they'll likely lose back by needing to pay the players received in return more than they would pay the compensation picks over the next 3-4 years. I don't think you really save a significant amount of money by trading Santana for multiple players.

 
 
 
 
the Dragon
the Dragon replied on December 4th, 2007 at 6:58 am

Mr. Ubelmann,

Very nice post.

Might refute Zager & Evan's prediction of when the Twins would have a major league ready player from the bonus picks..."In the Year 2525..."

Regard,

 
Twins Geek
Twins Geek replied on December 4th, 2007 at 8:48 am

I'll be interested to see the Red Sox projections.

One big difference between Caberera and Ellsbury is service time. Melky will be cheap next year, but he's a super-2 the year after that. Ellsbury has at least three years before he's arbitration eligible.

I guess I agree that the offer is fair. No, strike that. I belive that the offer is acceptable, and that's mostly because I have high hopes for Hughes. But I still think I'd prefer an offer of Lester, Crisp and Lowrie to Hughes and Cabrera. And if I were the Twins, I'd hold out even longer. I think the Yankees are in for a rude surprise when they realize how much their backup plans are going to cost, and when this Cabrera mess ends, I think it's likely there are other suitors.

ubelmann
ubelmann replied on December 4th, 2007 at 1:53 pm

The Dodgers are the only other team that especially excites me as a suitor. The Mariners (even though they've apparently pulled out) have Adam Jones, but Jeff Clement (C/1B) isn't a very good fit for the organization, they've screwed up Brendan Morrow's development, and Carlos Triunfel is a long way off. I haven't heard of anything the Angels have that especially excites me, and now that Lastings Milledge is gone, I'm not too keen on what the Mets might be able to offer. The Dodgers have Kemp and LaRoche, plus Billingsley, Broxton, and Kershaw on the pitching side of things. I have no idea what they would give up, but they have valuable pieces to offer, anyway.

That doesn't necessarily make holding out a bad position, though. Just like with A-Rod, if the Yankees are willing to discuss a trade this much now, they're not going to totally walk away unless they do something drastic (like trade for Haren or something.)

 
 
SethSpeaks
SethSpeaks replied on December 4th, 2007 at 9:06 am

I think that the key is Jed Lowrie. I think offensively, he'll be in the same category as Ellsbury. I would prefer Lester (or even moreso Buccholz), but I would be just fine with a Lester, Crisp, Lowrie and Masterson (although I would prefer Bowden) deal.

ubelmann
ubelmann replied on December 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

Yeah, I think Lowrie's going to be pretty good (though I'd like to see more projections for him) and he might otherwise be unavailable if the Sox didn't have Pedroia/Lugo in the middle infield.

SBG
SBG replied on December 4th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

Joe C. reporting at his blog that Lowrie has bad hands. This from a scout who watched him at the AFL and said he'd never play SS in the major leagues. Third hand rumors, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

ubelmann
ubelmann replied on December 4th, 2007 at 3:06 pm

Yeah, I just saw that now. I don't understand the whole argument. Bad hands eliminates you from being a shortstop, but you could still be fine at second base? I would think that bad hands eliminates you from basically any infield position, but I also think that surehandedness tends to be overrated by scouts. (And it's kind of strange to see Alexi Casilla be compared favorably to anyone these days.)

Either way, I think the Twins are pretty sensitive to infielders having good hands, so if he does have bad hands, I'd expect they wouldn't view him as a SS.

 
 
 
 
New Guy
New Guy replied on December 4th, 2007 at 9:19 am

Ellsbury to me seems like he will become the outfield equivalent of Derek Jeter. Sure he will be good, maybe even very good. But his game will also have significant flaws that are inevitably glossed over in the superlative praise of his intangibles. He had that nice World Series, so he's always going to be known as a proven post-season sparkplug, and a reliable clutch passionate gamer. He plays for the Red Sox, so he's also great at performing in high pressure situations and has the strength of spirit to play in a big market.

Unless he gets traded to the Twins, and becomes known as that guy that plays that sport for that team.

ubelmann
ubelmann replied on December 4th, 2007 at 1:55 pm

Jeter's a HOF SS. I highly doubt that Ellsbury will have a HOF career, but I do agree that if he stays in Boston we'll hear a lot about his intangibles and if he comes to Minnesota he'll just be some dude who used to play for Boston.

 
 

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