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	<title>Comments on: Checking in with Johan Santana</title>
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	<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/</link>
	<description>Your Daily Source for Half-Baked Crap</description>
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		<title>By: Rhubarb_Runner</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128674</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhubarb_Runner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 19:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128674</guid>
		<description>Yeah, if they&#039;d jack-hammered that BoSox uni up later in the season, we might have had news reports of a missing Cashman about the time they repoured the concrete floor again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, if they'd jack-hammered that BoSox uni up later in the season, we might have had news reports of a missing Cashman about the time they repoured the concrete floor again.</p>
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		<title>By: Algonad</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128673</link>
		<dc:creator>Algonad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 19:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128673</guid>
		<description>I have Jeter on both my fantasy baseball teams.  I&#039;ve noticed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have Jeter on both my fantasy baseball teams.  I've noticed.</p>
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		<title>By: SBG</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128670</link>
		<dc:creator>SBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 19:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128670</guid>
		<description>This is what everyone is waiting for.  An explosion at the Yankees&#039; compound.  Anyone else notice that Jeter&#039;s got a Tyner-esque line (.286/.317/.357) going this year?  I know he&#039;s been hurt, but a decline there along with the suspect pitching staff could be enough (along with an injured A-Rod) to cause the Yankees to flip out.  Pop the corn and settle in.  It could be entertaining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what everyone is waiting for.  An explosion at the Yankees' compound.  Anyone else notice that Jeter's got a Tyner-esque line (.286/.317/.357) going this year?  I know he's been hurt, but a decline there along with the suspect pitching staff could be enough (along with an injured A-Rod) to cause the Yankees to flip out.  Pop the corn and settle in.  It could be entertaining.</p>
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		<title>By: socaltwinsfan</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128669</link>
		<dc:creator>socaltwinsfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 19:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128669</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve felt all along that Cashman was going to get fired after not making the Johan trade. The ideal realistic scenario for him is the Yankees still make the playoffs this year and then they sign C.C. Sabathia as a free agent and thus are able to keep their young pitchers to offset Sabathia&#039;s salary. Of course, that would mean Sabathia doesn&#039;t keep pitching like he did his first few starts.

If they don&#039;t make the playoffs this year, especially if Johan gets the Mets to the playoffs and/or wins a Cy Young and/or 20 games, Cashman is gone. If he doesn&#039;t win a World Series in 2008 or 2009 and they don&#039;t have an ace pitcher that makes it likely that they will win one in the near future, Cashman is gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've felt all along that Cashman was going to get fired after not making the Johan trade. The ideal realistic scenario for him is the Yankees still make the playoffs this year and then they sign C.C. Sabathia as a free agent and thus are able to keep their young pitchers to offset Sabathia's salary. Of course, that would mean Sabathia doesn't keep pitching like he did his first few starts.</p>
<p>If they don't make the playoffs this year, especially if Johan gets the Mets to the playoffs and/or wins a Cy Young and/or 20 games, Cashman is gone. If he doesn't win a World Series in 2008 or 2009 and they don't have an ace pitcher that makes it likely that they will win one in the near future, Cashman is gone.</p>
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		<title>By: brianS</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128662</link>
		<dc:creator>brianS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 18:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128662</guid>
		<description>Well, we can always trade them Livan :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we can always trade them Livan <img src='http://stickandballguy.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/tango-smileys-extended/tango24/smile.png' alt='Smile' title='Smile' class='tse-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Algonad</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128661</link>
		<dc:creator>Algonad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 18:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128661</guid>
		<description>I would be counting on East Coast hype and panic to drive up the price.  Management may understand that injuries will happen but fans and owners can drive them to do something stupid once it actually happens.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the Yankee front office if Hughes and Kennedy flop and the Yankees miss the playoffs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be counting on East Coast hype and panic to drive up the price.  Management may understand that injuries will happen but fans and owners can drive them to do something stupid once it actually happens.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see what happens in the Yankee front office if Hughes and Kennedy flop and the Yankees miss the playoffs.</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128658</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 18:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128658</guid>
		<description>But in-season, teams also get less Santana, so it&#039;s not all a positive.  It&#039;s going to be harder for the Twins to pull the trigger on a trade featuring Phil Hughes if he&#039;s been injured/awful.  I also suspect that both the Red Sox and Mets knew they weren&#039;t going to make it through the season with a completely healthy rotation, since that basically never happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But in-season, teams also get less Santana, so it's not all a positive.  It's going to be harder for the Twins to pull the trigger on a trade featuring Phil Hughes if he's been injured/awful.  I also suspect that both the Red Sox and Mets knew they weren't going to make it through the season with a completely healthy rotation, since that basically never happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Algonad</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128656</link>
		<dc:creator>Algonad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 18:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128656</guid>
		<description>There should be plenty of demand for pitching this season.  The Twins would have been in an even better bargaining position with the Mets now that Pedro is hurt.  And didn&#039;t the Schilling news come out after the trade, too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There should be plenty of demand for pitching this season.  The Twins would have been in an even better bargaining position with the Mets now that Pedro is hurt.  And didn't the Schilling news come out after the trade, too?</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128648</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128648</guid>
		<description>Has there been any word through the media about whether that move is permanent?  I was kind of wondering if the Twins were trying to somewhat limit his innings, since he was only around 145 IP last year.  (And Perkins was only around 50 IP last year, so I wonder if the Twins will really keep him in the rotation all season.)

Anyway, I&#039;ve agreed with you all along that Humber seems like a good candidate for the bullpen.  They probably figure he doesn&#039;t have good enough control to go deep into games as a starter.  (Which is probably true.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has there been any word through the media about whether that move is permanent?  I was kind of wondering if the Twins were trying to somewhat limit his innings, since he was only around 145 IP last year.  (And Perkins was only around 50 IP last year, so I wonder if the Twins will really keep him in the rotation all season.)</p>
<p>Anyway, I've agreed with you all along that Humber seems like a good candidate for the bullpen.  They probably figure he doesn't have good enough control to go deep into games as a starter.  (Which is probably true.)</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128646</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128646</guid>
		<description>I guess that since I don&#039;t really know what the Yankees were offering, it&#039;s tough for me to say if I would have done that.  I do agree that Santana ultimately would have agreed to be traded to a contender mid-season, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that since I don't really know what the Yankees were offering, it's tough for me to say if I would have done that.  I do agree that Santana ultimately would have agreed to be traded to a contender mid-season, though.</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128645</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128645</guid>
		<description>Yeah, sadly I think that year is going to foster unrealistic expectations for a while.  It was quite a bit of fun while it lasted, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, sadly I think that year is going to foster unrealistic expectations for a while.  It was quite a bit of fun while it lasted, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Algonad</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128642</link>
		<dc:creator>Algonad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128642</guid>
		<description>Another thing to think about as it relates to Hughes&#039; and Kennedy&#039;s slow starts (and now Hughes&#039; injury) is that the Yankees are desperate for starting pitching.  Despite what Johan&#039;s agent said about a deadline, I think the Twins should have taken their chances and gone into the season with Johan on their roster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing to think about as it relates to Hughes' and Kennedy's slow starts (and now Hughes' injury) is that the Yankees are desperate for starting pitching.  Despite what Johan's agent said about a deadline, I think the Twins should have taken their chances and gone into the season with Johan on their roster.</p>
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		<title>By: greenmachine</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128641</link>
		<dc:creator>greenmachine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128641</guid>
		<description>With the likely decline in Reyes and Rincon (though Reyes has obviously pitched very well so far), that sounds like a smart move to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the likely decline in Reyes and Rincon (though Reyes has obviously pitched very well so far), that sounds like a smart move to me.</p>
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		<title>By: SBG</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128640</link>
		<dc:creator>SBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128640</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;surely 2009 will be the year where everyone stays healthy (even though that never happens) and everyone has a career year.&lt;/em&gt;

Lightning already struck once: in 2006.  No reason to believe it will happen again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>surely 2009 will be the year where everyone stays healthy (even though that never happens) and everyone has a career year.</em></p>
<p>Lightning already struck once: in 2006.  No reason to believe it will happen again.</p>
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		<title>By: SBG</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128639</link>
		<dc:creator>SBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128639</guid>
		<description>I saw that.  I think you are probably right in thinking that the Twins want to find out if he has value in the bullpen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw that.  I think you are probably right in thinking that the Twins want to find out if he has value in the bullpen.</p>
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		<title>By: Whiffers</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128637</link>
		<dc:creator>Whiffers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128637</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a question I&#039;ve been thinking about as well--at what point does excessive bunting get in the way of developing as a hitter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's a question I've been thinking about as well--at what point does excessive bunting get in the way of developing as a hitter?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick N.</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128634</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128634</guid>
		<description>As an aside, it appears that Phil Humber has been moved to the bullpen in Rochester.  I figured he&#039;d end up there all along, but I&#039;m a little surprised it happened so soon.  The Twins are out of options on Humber next year, so perhaps they&#039;re just trying to get a good handle on how he can be of some value to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an aside, it appears that Phil Humber has been moved to the bullpen in Rochester.  I figured he'd end up there all along, but I'm a little surprised it happened so soon.  The Twins are out of options on Humber next year, so perhaps they're just trying to get a good handle on how he can be of some value to them.</p>
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		<title>By: twayn</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128632</link>
		<dc:creator>twayn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 15:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128632</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;It&#039;s clear that to succeed with a high strikeout rate, you&#039;ve gotta have some power, and I think Gomez really might develop that power.&lt;/em&gt;

It&#039;s that power potential that makes the rampant bunting so maddening. I don&#039;t see Gomez hitting 40 HR a year, but 20 or 25 is definitely possible, and with his speed he could stretch a lot of singles into doubles and doubles into triples. I&#039;d sure like to see Rod Carew make Gomez a personal project and work with him extensively, a la Tony Gwynn and Jacques Jones (only with much better results).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>It's clear that to succeed with a high strikeout rate, you've gotta have some power, and I think Gomez really might develop that power.</em></p>
<p>It's that power potential that makes the rampant bunting so maddening. I don't see Gomez hitting 40 HR a year, but 20 or 25 is definitely possible, and with his speed he could stretch a lot of singles into doubles and doubles into triples. I'd sure like to see Rod Carew make Gomez a personal project and work with him extensively, a la Tony Gwynn and Jacques Jones (only with much better results).</p>
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		<title>By: Rhubarb_Runner</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128615</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhubarb_Runner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 11:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128615</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;When Life Gives You &lt;s&gt;Lemons&lt;/s&gt;&lt;/em&gt; Delmons

Fixed that for you, E-6</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>When Life Gives You <s>Lemons</s></em> Delmons</p>
<p>Fixed that for you, E-6</p>
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		<title>By: E-6</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128607</link>
		<dc:creator>E-6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 02:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128607</guid>
		<description>When Life Gives You Lemons, You Paint That Shit &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rhymesayers.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gold.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Life Gives You Lemons, You Paint That Shit <a href="http://www.rhymesayers.com/" rel="nofollow">Gold.</a></p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128600</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 02:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128600</guid>
		<description>Well, I guess I just would have rebuilt differently overall.  I meant to post on this in the offseason, but things got too busy.  I&#039;m not all that fond of 3-4 year time frames.  I&#039;m sure over the offseason, we&#039;ll get all kinds of hype about how all the young hitters are going to be one year older, and surely 2009 will be the year where everyone stays healthy (even though that never happens) and everyone has a career year.

I would have been in favor of something like: 

- Santana for Hughes/Cabrera/something
- Sign Mike Cameron for a year + option year, roughly
- Sign Adam Everett and move JB to 2B (Yeah, I know, they&#039;ve both been awful at the plate so far this year, but I do like my defense, and hopefully Everett looks better with a healthy shoulder.  Plus, I just didn&#039;t see any particular long-term 2B/SS solutions that would have really been worth going after.  This way, you at least have flexibility going forward.)
- Try to flip some of the midlevel pitching (on the order of Glen Perkins) for a decent but unspectacular 3B.
- See how things shake out in &#039;08 and hopefully a couple of shrewd moves in the &#039;08 offseason could put the &#039;09 team in contention

It&#039;s hard to get hitting up-the-middle, and that&#039;s where this organization lacks hitting the most.  (Other than third base.  Which has been a ridiculous pile of suck since Koskie left.)  But Cameron/Cabrera/3B could well be a significant upgrade over Gomez/Young/Lamb for the next couple of years.  Since it&#039;s going to be hard to overhaul this into a team that scores a lot of runs overnight, I thought it would be better to embrace my inner 1969, and do what I could to build the team around pitching and defense.  You get the same trophy for winning 3-2 games as you do for winning 5-4 games.  (My thought process, in essence, being: it&#039;s easier to make lemonade from lemons than it is to make orange juice from lemons.)

With the way things actually went down, I think that by the time Delmon and Gomez really get it going (if they get it going--they seem light years away from where they are &quot;supposed&quot; to be) Cuddyer will have seen his best seasons, and for one reason or another, Mauer or Morneau might wind up past his peak, too.  It&#039;s just so hard to count on things 4-5 years down the line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I guess I just would have rebuilt differently overall.  I meant to post on this in the offseason, but things got too busy.  I'm not all that fond of 3-4 year time frames.  I'm sure over the offseason, we'll get all kinds of hype about how all the young hitters are going to be one year older, and surely 2009 will be the year where everyone stays healthy (even though that never happens) and everyone has a career year.</p>
<p>I would have been in favor of something like: </p>
<p>- Santana for Hughes/Cabrera/something<br />
- Sign Mike Cameron for a year + option year, roughly<br />
- Sign Adam Everett and move JB to 2B (Yeah, I know, they've both been awful at the plate so far this year, but I do like my defense, and hopefully Everett looks better with a healthy shoulder.  Plus, I just didn't see any particular long-term 2B/SS solutions that would have really been worth going after.  This way, you at least have flexibility going forward.)<br />
- Try to flip some of the midlevel pitching (on the order of Glen Perkins) for a decent but unspectacular 3B.<br />
- See how things shake out in '08 and hopefully a couple of shrewd moves in the '08 offseason could put the '09 team in contention</p>
<p>It's hard to get hitting up-the-middle, and that's where this organization lacks hitting the most.  (Other than third base.  Which has been a ridiculous pile of suck since Koskie left.)  But Cameron/Cabrera/3B could well be a significant upgrade over Gomez/Young/Lamb for the next couple of years.  Since it's going to be hard to overhaul this into a team that scores a lot of runs overnight, I thought it would be better to embrace my inner 1969, and do what I could to build the team around pitching and defense.  You get the same trophy for winning 3-2 games as you do for winning 5-4 games.  (My thought process, in essence, being: it's easier to make lemonade from lemons than it is to make orange juice from lemons.)</p>
<p>With the way things actually went down, I think that by the time Delmon and Gomez really get it going (if they get it going--they seem light years away from where they are "supposed" to be) Cuddyer will have seen his best seasons, and for one reason or another, Mauer or Morneau might wind up past his peak, too.  It's just so hard to count on things 4-5 years down the line.</p>
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		<title>By: greenmachine</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/05/01/checking-in-with-johan-santana/#comment-128597</link>
		<dc:creator>greenmachine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 01:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=5811#comment-128597</guid>
		<description>I agree, the calculus hasn&#039;t changed all that much. If we had an offense, we might think about griping on Gomez 2008 hitting vs. Melky/Ellsby hitting. But plug M or E in this team right now and we&#039;re still not scoring runs. So we have to keep hoping for Gomez potential &gt; M/E potential.

I did have the thought &quot;glad we didn&#039;t trade for Hughes!&quot; but there are plenty of question marks around the pitchers we did get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, the calculus hasn't changed all that much. If we had an offense, we might think about griping on Gomez 2008 hitting vs. Melky/Ellsby hitting. But plug M or E in this team right now and we're still not scoring runs. So we have to keep hoping for Gomez potential > M/E potential.</p>
<p>I did have the thought "glad we didn't trade for Hughes!" but there are plenty of question marks around the pitchers we did get.</p>
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