Is Eric Wedge Stupid?
Posted by ubelmann on Monday, July 7th, 2008 at 4:13 am
So, I just started on a rather ill-advised internet journey, and even though I should go to bed, I feel strangely compelled to complete that journey.
My first mistake was to check LEN3's game report to see what everyone had to say about Carlos Bunty McBunterson vs. Cliff Can't Be Bothered To Field His Position Lee.
"I was just trying to do my job and he ... jumped on me,'' Gomez said after the Twins won 4-3. "He say, 'Stop bunting.' But not like that. With bad language.
"And I say, 'You do your job and I do my job.' My coaches tell me what we have to do."
Gomez said bunting is a big part of his game and he's not going to stop doing it.
"I know he won't be mad when he throws me four sliders in a row,'' Gomez said. "It's your job to do whatever, throw me 10 sliders in a row. If I strike out, OK. I get you next time. But don't be mad when I bunt.''
And I absolutely love that response from Gomez. Of course, Cliff Lee, who had to be a big pansy to complain about bunting in the first place, was a big pansy about the issue afterward:
When Lee was asked about his conversations with Gomez, he replied, "It was nothing.''
Sure, Cliff, it was nothing. You yell at all the hitters you face, that's just how the game is played these days, right?
So I wanted to see if he expounded elsewhere, or if Eric Wedge had anything to say about it. (Honestly, I think that any manager worth his paycheck should chew out a pitcher for getting so bent out of shape about that. Do your PFP, get your booty off the mound, and get the outs. I don't recall Johan Santana ever complaining about fielding bunts while he was pouncing on them, and Cliff Lee is no Johan Santana.) I made the mistake of going over to the Indians' SBN blog Let's Go Tribe. (Long story short--they are no Sox Machine or Detroit Tigers Weblog.) I didn't see anything obviously related to a game recap, since there was all kinds of talk about the Cheeseburger trade, which I kind of wanted to avoid since I'm not that familiar with the prospects in the trade and didn't want to spend a ton of time right now looking through all of their statistics. (Though if anyone is curious, my understanding is that LaPorta is the centerpiece, and I'm not a big fan of trading up-the-middle players for corner players, but LaPorta plus prospects is probably better than the two compensation picks that Cleveland would have gotten by finishing their Captain Cheeseburger Happy Meal this year.)
Then I went to their game thread, which was another mistake. Although I could empathize with the guy complaining about Bremer's ineptitude, he was really missing the point about Hafner's old production missing from the lineup and then I had to grit my teeth through some "Mauer is overrated" posts, some suggesting that Victor Martinez is obviously better, I guess because he plays 20% of his games at first base these days. I don't know. Finally, they completely ignored the inning where the Twins took the lead, and basically ignored Lee's whining and moaning, so I didn't really get any satisfaction on that front.
At that point, I got distracted by a link to Joe Posnanski about whether or not Grady Sizemore should be hitting leadoff. Socaltwinsfan mentioned this at the beginning of the Cleveland series, but as with most lineup construction issues these days, I simply dismissed it with a "lineup effects just aren't that important" mental thought. (I mean, the Twins have had some recent games with Mauer-Morneau-Kubel hitting back-to-back-to-back, which is like crashing a biplane through the Dome's teflon roof with a sign that says "PLEASE INSERT YOUR LOOGY HERE", yet the Twins are scoring more runs than their peripherals would suggest.) But I'll take any excuse I can get to read Posnanski's blog.
Anyway, The Pos wanted Sizemore hitting third, and I wasn't particularly compelled by his argument. As one of the commenters noted, you're trading opportunities for him to drive in runs for opportunities for him to score runs. He's had five leadoff HR so far this year, and while there are some lost RBI there, he's got the best OBP on the team, and getting him more PA helps extend the game (plus more opportunities for him to hit a HR.) But that argument's not really any better than Posnanski's argument.
So I went and found Cleveland's most common lineup this year (Sizemore-Carroll-Francisco-Peralta-Choo-Blake-Dellucci-Garko-Shoppach), their PECOTA projections, and plugged them into the Baseball Musings Lineup Analysis tool.
I got these results. Basically, Wedge's lineup is at 4.72 R/G, the "best" lineup is at 4.89 R/G, and the "worst" lineup is at 4.61 R/G. Notably, in all of the "best" lineups, Sizemore is hitting first or second, and there's really no significant difference between the production of the lineups with him hitting first compared to those with him hitting second.
Some might object that the first half performance is how Wedge should be filling out the lineup (optimally, I would like to re-run PECOTA with the first-half stats included, but that's not an option.) Doing that, I get these results. This indeed changes the situation. Wedge's lineup is at 4.86 R/G, the "best" lineup is at 5.06 R/G, and the "worst" lineup is at 4.60 R/G. The important thing, though, is that in all of the "best" lineups, Sizemore is not hitting leadoff. He's mainly listed at 2nd and 4th, though there are three with him hitting 5th. (Of course, he is also not listed hitting 3rd, which is where Posnanski thinks he fits best.)
Now, as a manager, you don't really want to make it a habit of giving up 0.2 R/G. Over the course of a full season, that's about 30 runs, or roughly 3 wins. But which set of inputs should we believe more--the PECOTA forecasts or the first-half stats? I would personally lean towards the PECOTA forecasts. The first-half stats represent a particular set of performance outcomes for a player, but the PECOTA forecasts are based on multiple seasons and regressed to the mean. Shin-Soo Choo (listed leadoff in many of the "best" lineups with the first-half stats) may have a .367 OBP, but is it really a good idea to fill out your lineup on the assumption that he will continue to hit that way? There have been a lot of studies about how there's not really a "hot hand" effect in baseball, so I don't think that would be a particularly wise idea.
Also, this lineup tool doesn't consider stolen bases, which is a weapon that Sizemore has in his toolbox, and would probably be a point in favor of hitting him first as opposed to third.
Looking at everything, I would guess that Wedge is probably leaving some runs on the table by hitting Sizemore leadoff. The extra RBI he would get by hitting HR in, say, the 2nd spot would probably outweigh the 16-20 PA over the course of the season that he would lose by hitting one spot lower in the order. I don't think that "some runs" is 30 runs, but I could believe something like 5-10 runs.
At the same time, I think there are a lot of managers who would look at that group of players and just keep Sizemore where he's at because there isn't someone who would obviously be a great leadoff hitter. So when judging Wedge against his peers, I don't think this is a huge strike against him, if it's even a strike at all. That is, I'm basically sticking with my "lineup effects just aren't that important" thought.


So, I guess the answer to your title, ultimately, is "no", at least not for his lineup construction?
I think you're too harsh on Cliff Lee for his reply. It was nothing, and should never have happened. I too loved OKGo's post-game response (after waiting for the subtitles to be added). Wish he could have stolen a couple bases off of Lee while he was at it, too.
I don't get why some pitchers get mad when you bunt against them, especially since it's usually an easy out if you just field it. It's like a point guard getting mad for his opponent driving to the basket or a poker player getting mad because his opponent bluffed. It really seems like you'd need to have some sense of entitlement to feel that way--like all you should be required to do is pitch. You think he gets upset when they play in an NL stadium and he has to hit too?
The funniest part is that the Indians opened the game with back-to-back bunts.
I hate the "unwritten" rules of baseball. This isn't golf. A team should do whatever it needs to do to win. I'm even fine with bunting to break up a no-hitter. Whatever it takes.
Well, I'll temper that "whatever it takes to win" by excluding some over-enthusiastic takeout slides and other plays which have a potential to injure a player, but I agree with you. Sure, it's pretty darn aggravating if you're on the opposing team, but hey! if it was your teammate laying down the bunt, or leaning into a pitch, or whatever, I'm sure you'd be cheering lustily.
TBH, if I knew that bunting would upset the opposing pitcher, I'd be more likely to do it--put him on tilt a little bit. If he starts yelling at me, I'd start calling him a crybaby and make fun of him for not wanting to run 30 feet to go field a ball. I guess he'd probably try and throw at me during my next AB, but whatever.
This is an excellent point -- completely agree. IMO, going nutty at something like that exposes a weakness... most of the time, wouldn't we agree that "a mad player is a bad player"? They stop thinking rationally and start doing stupid, impetuous things like trying to blow away hitters with heat (when that's not necessarily the best thing to do) or throwing at batters (which could be a bad thing for the Twins but generally not so).
If I'm the Twins, I'd bust out a full-on buntfest next time they see Lee...
I might have been looking a little too hard for it, but in one of the later AB against Gomez, I could have sworn that Lee missed high once or twice because it looked like he was overthrowing. (And for all I know, that could have been one of the problems he had in trying to throw strikes in the decisive 4-run inning.)
In general, though, I would certainly agree that a mad player is a bad player--at least in baseball. In other sports, getting a little more amped up might have its advantages, but baseball is more about precision, focus, and timing. Getting mad doesn't really help any of that stuff.
Ty Cobb thinks you just don't want to win enough...
Great post. Any idea what the estimated variances are on PECOTA forecasts?
I'd have to guess that they are large compared to the spread of outcomes you are noting on different lineups. Which strongly suggests that batting order doesn't matter (much). *
*but I'd still want my expected optimal batting order. Shrug.
Maybe Lee just thought that it was required for a Cleveland southpaw to get all pissy whenever someone bunts on him. He was merely trying to fill some extremely huge pants.
ooooh, you may be on to something there, buckaneer. it's that ol' veteran presence thing again
Classic line!
Seriously, with your combo of analysis and wit/readability, you should be doing this professionally, even if only part time... I don't say that about a lot of folks as obviously there are a lot of people doing the blogging thing these days, but I really do think your work is a cut above. Very entertaining and extremely illuminating... I love how you challenge so much conventional wisdom, but in a way that's different from most writers...
Let's face it, sabermetric analysis has gotten a wee bit predictable and people wielding it love to go after the same targets over and over again (using bad stats like pitcher W/L, inferior stats like ERA, "clutch hitting", etc)... I like that you seem to tackle less obvious subjects.
Thanks for the kind words, Brink.