Comments on: Liriano http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/ Your Daily Source for Half-Baked Crap Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:23:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: AMR http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148420 AMR Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:18:14 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148420 Last time I heard someone complain like this, Longoria was signed to a 7-year deal a couple days after being recalled. Now everyone seems real happy. Not that I hope the Twins do that with a pitcher with injury issues, but some sort of a goodwill offering, cost-certainty for income security might make sense before 2009 starts. Last time I heard someone complain like this, Longoria was signed to a 7-year deal a couple days after being recalled. Now everyone seems real happy.

Not that I hope the Twins do that with a pitcher with injury issues, but some sort of a goodwill offering, cost-certainty for income security might make sense before 2009 starts.

]]> By: FirstTimeLongTime http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148407 FirstTimeLongTime Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:26:20 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148407 What upsets me regarding this is the poor taste that Minnesota is obviously leaving in Liriano's mouth. I imagine this is going to come back to bite us in the rear-end during his arbitration years. What upsets me regarding this is the poor taste that Minnesota is obviously leaving in Liriano's mouth. I imagine this is going to come back to bite us in the rear-end during his arbitration years.

]]> By: ubelmann http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148396 ubelmann Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:25:10 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148396 That's a matter of spin-doctoring. Market it as a commitment to youth and making sure that everyone is doing things the Twins way. No one is under the impression that Gomez is more valuable than Santana right now anyway. That's a matter of spin-doctoring. Market it as a commitment to youth and making sure that everyone is doing things the Twins way. No one is under the impression that Gomez is more valuable than Santana right now anyway.

]]> By: bertrecords http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148349 bertrecords Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:17:06 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148349 You make a strong case, except for Exhibit A and Exhibit B. The Twins could save money by sending down Delmon and/or Carlos, but then it would seem obvious that management was on the losing end of trades. A secret to successful management is not highlighting what might appear to be your poor decisions. You make a strong case, except for Exhibit A and Exhibit B. The Twins could save money by sending down Delmon and/or Carlos, but then it would seem obvious that management was on the losing end of trades. A secret to successful management is not highlighting what might appear to be your poor decisions.

]]> By: socaltwinsfan http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148293 socaltwinsfan Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:05:35 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148293 I remember there being some talk of a six-man rotation recently, but I don't recall where I saw it. I remember there being some talk of a six-man rotation recently, but I don't recall where I saw it.

]]> By: bodly http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148289 bodly Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:22:05 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148289 8 innings 1 ernie 7 hits no walks 8 Ks 103 pitches 70 strikes. The scoreless inning streak ended at 29 2/3. Another dominating game. The man is keeping him down! 8 innings 1 ernie 7 hits no walks 8 Ks 103 pitches 70 strikes. The scoreless inning streak ended at 29 2/3. Another dominating game. The man is keeping him down!

]]> By: meat http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148285 meat Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:54:42 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148285 This just may be an example of Liriano's agent trying to force a response through the threat of a grievance. Who knows how much posturing is going on here and at what cost (ie is the manager losing money because Liriano is in AAA?). This just may be an example of Liriano's agent trying to force a response through the threat of a grievance. Who knows how much posturing is going on here and at what cost (ie is the manager losing money because Liriano is in AAA?).

]]> By: ubelmann http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148273 ubelmann Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:53:20 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148273 Garza was moved aggressively, but it seems like he had a lot more trouble garnering favor with the top level staff, though that may have been more of an attitude thing than a control thing. I agree that it's not the greatest example, but I just got the impression that the Twins wanted Slowey in the majors alot more than they wanted Garza in the majors. Garza was moved aggressively, but it seems like he had a lot more trouble garnering favor with the top level staff, though that may have been more of an attitude thing than a control thing. I agree that it's not the greatest example, but I just got the impression that the Twins wanted Slowey in the majors alot more than they wanted Garza in the majors.

]]> By: ubelmann http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148272 ubelmann Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:47:45 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148272 The Ruiz pickup was a great move. I wouldn't be that surprised if he could lefty-mash as well as, say, Richie Sexson right now if the Twins really wanted a RHB with no position. The Ruiz pickup was a great move. I wouldn't be that surprised if he could lefty-mash as well as, say, Richie Sexson right now if the Twins really wanted a RHB with no position.

]]> By: Rhubarb_Runner http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148271 Rhubarb_Runner Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:47:03 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148271 IIRC, Gardy had a little passive concern over the number of innings that Blackburn is projected to pitch this year, vs. his previous season high innings totals. I know a six-man rotation may not be the best thing, but "relieving" some of the innings our young starters have been accumulating might not be that bad of an idea, and if Liriano can do that (and do it acceptably), great. Either that, or re-Boof. And that's all assuming Livan continues to be tolerated. IIRC, Gardy had a little passive concern over the number of innings that Blackburn is projected to pitch this year, vs. his previous season high innings totals. I know a six-man rotation may not be the best thing, but "relieving" some of the innings our young starters have been accumulating might not be that bad of an idea, and if Liriano can do that (and do it acceptably), great. Either that, or re-Boof. And that's all assuming Livan continues to be tolerated.

]]> By: davidwatts http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148270 davidwatts Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:44:50 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148270 you can listen to tonights game through the web too http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/clubs/ip_index.jsp?sid=milb&cid=t568 (you do have to register, but its free) you can listen to tonights game through the web too

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/clubs/ip_index.jsp?sid=milb&cid=t568

(you do have to register, but its free)

]]> By: bodly http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148268 bodly Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:44:09 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148268 And Ruiz sets the Red Wings franchise record with an RBI single in the first inning. Congratulations. And Ruiz sets the Red Wings franchise record with an RBI single in the first inning. Congratulations.

]]> By: davidwatts http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148267 davidwatts Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:40:44 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148267 tied with Chris Heintz, I do believe tied with Chris Heintz, I do believe

]]> By: bodly http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148264 bodly Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:19:05 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148264 Liriano's pitching tonight for the Red Wings. It will be interesting to watch how he does the next couple of starts. Also Randy Ruiz has a 22 game hitting streak, which I believe is tied for the franchise record. Liriano's pitching tonight for the Red Wings. It will be interesting to watch how he does the next couple of starts.

Also Randy Ruiz has a 22 game hitting streak, which I believe is tied for the franchise record.

]]> By: Neil http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148258 Neil Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:29:14 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148258 Well, there it's a hell of a leap from contacting the union about filing a grievance and actually filing a grievance. (Related: I always love how people get all up in arms about the latest silly lawsuit filed - it doesn't take a hell of a lot to file a lawsuit.) I think probably his agent isn't doing him a lot of favors here. I do like that he wants to be in the majors. Is there really no game tonight? Sigh... Well, there it's a hell of a leap from contacting the union about filing a grievance and actually filing a grievance. (Related: I always love how people get all up in arms about the latest silly lawsuit filed - it doesn't take a hell of a lot to file a lawsuit.) I think probably his agent isn't doing him a lot of favors here.
I do like that he wants to be in the majors.
Is there really no game tonight? Sigh...

]]> By: Nick N. http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148257 Nick N. Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:20:17 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148257 This is a nit-pick, but I don't see how the Garza v. Slowey example applies to your point about the Twins promoting strike-throwers more quickly. They moved Garza much more aggressively than Slowey through the system in spite of the fact that Slowey was a control freak. This is a nit-pick, but I don't see how the Garza v. Slowey example applies to your point about the Twins promoting strike-throwers more quickly. They moved Garza much more aggressively than Slowey through the system in spite of the fact that Slowey was a control freak.

]]> By: GreekHouse http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148254 GreekHouse Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:56:45 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148254 I don't see how Liriano could possibly win a grievance. He was obviously not recovered when he was up here in the Spring, and while encouraging, a few good starts doesn't mean all that much. Hell, even Livan was reasonable for about a month and a half before he completely blew up. I don't see how Liriano could possibly win a grievance. He was obviously not recovered when he was up here in the Spring, and while encouraging, a few good starts doesn't mean all that much. Hell, even Livan was reasonable for about a month and a half before he completely blew up.

]]> By: greenmachine http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148251 greenmachine Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:38:42 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148251 LIriano's starts at the major league level this year were atrocious! I think if you come up and do that poorly, you really owe some humility for at least the rest of the season. Of course, this could just be posturing driven by his agent, who knows. But between the examples ubelmann cites and the fact that the Twins actually *did* rush him to the majors already this year (resulting in total failure), I don't see how there's a case here. In retrospect, I wonder if part of the logic of bringing him up early this year (not that I opposed the move) was to head off this kind of potential grievance move. After all, B Smith keeps saying something like "It was good he came up to show everyone that he wasn't ready" when discussing it. But yeah, I don't see how anyone can think the Twins don't really badly want Liriano a) in the majors and b) pitching well. It'll happen. LIriano's starts at the major league level this year were atrocious! I think if you come up and do that poorly, you really owe some humility for at least the rest of the season. Of course, this could just be posturing driven by his agent, who knows. But between the examples ubelmann cites and the fact that the Twins actually *did* rush him to the majors already this year (resulting in total failure), I don't see how there's a case here. In retrospect, I wonder if part of the logic of bringing him up early this year (not that I opposed the move) was to head off this kind of potential grievance move. After all, B Smith keeps saying something like "It was good he came up to show everyone that he wasn't ready" when discussing it.

But yeah, I don't see how anyone can think the Twins don't really badly want Liriano a) in the majors and b) pitching well. It'll happen.

]]> By: ubelmann http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148250 ubelmann Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:37:39 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148250 Yeah, with three seasons in the minors already, he would probably need that mystical fourth option which would be gone by next year. This will probably prove to be annoying, as Delmon will likely struggle at some point next season, and inevitably some people will call for him to be sent down when that won't be an option. Yeah, with three seasons in the minors already, he would probably need that mystical fourth option which would be gone by next year. This will probably prove to be annoying, as Delmon will likely struggle at some point next season, and inevitably some people will call for him to be sent down when that won't be an option.

]]> By: SBG http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148243 SBG Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:22:43 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148243 The question is whether he can throw 90 more innings this year. I have $5 riding on that. The question is whether he can throw 90 more innings this year. I have $5 riding on that.

]]> By: SBG http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148241 SBG Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:21:07 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148241 The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_transactions" rel="nofollow">Repository says no</a>: <blockquote>However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers.</blockquote> This is Delmon's fifth season. I remember the Humber conversation and it had to do with signing a major league contract as your first contract, IIRC. So, I don't know whether Delmon could be sent down next year. I think no. And yes, this was just a hypothetical conversation. The Repository says no:

However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers.

This is Delmon's fifth season. I remember the Humber conversation and it had to do with signing a major league contract as your first contract, IIRC. So, I don't know whether Delmon could be sent down next year. I think no.

And yes, this was just a hypothetical conversation.

]]> By: bodly http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148237 bodly Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:16:05 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148237 Ah, ok. Got it. The point was that they could send him down and haven't, not that they should send him down. Ah, ok. Got it. The point was that they could send him down and haven't, not that they should send him down.

]]> By: ubelmann http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148235 ubelmann Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:13:53 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148235 Not right now, but his line last year was pretty underwhelming, and I think it would be pretty easy to make the case that Delmon has some things he could learn in the minors. If the Twins were really interested in pushing back arbitration dates and all that, they could have found a way to send him to Rochester at some point this season. Not right now, but his line last year was pretty underwhelming, and I think it would be pretty easy to make the case that Delmon has some things he could learn in the minors. If the Twins were really interested in pushing back arbitration dates and all that, they could have found a way to send him to Rochester at some point this season.

]]> By: bodly http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148233 bodly Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:08:30 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148233 Why would you want to option Delmon? Since June 1st he's hitting .321/.341/.466. Not the most exciting line ever, but certainly not deserving of being sent down. Why would you want to option Delmon? Since June 1st he's hitting .321/.341/.466. Not the most exciting line ever, but certainly not deserving of being sent down.

]]> By: ubelmann http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148232 ubelmann Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:06:42 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148232 I forgot that he signed a major league contract right away. I think he probably has one option left (this was a question with Humber, too, it seems that younger guys who sign major league contracts right away get 4 options or something? I forget.) But if Delmon has an option left, then he'll still have it next year as long as we don't exercise it this year. I'm pretty sure that the options don't expire until his arbitration eligibility expires (or we use them up.) I forgot that he signed a major league contract right away. I think he probably has one option left (this was a question with Humber, too, it seems that younger guys who sign major league contracts right away get 4 options or something? I forget.) But if Delmon has an option left, then he'll still have it next year as long as we don't exercise it this year. I'm pretty sure that the options don't expire until his arbitration eligibility expires (or we use them up.)

]]> By: bodly http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148230 bodly Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:03:55 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148230 While I'm sure the Super 2 issue has crossed the minds of the Twins' brain trust, I think that's probably not the reason Liriano is still in AAA. His last bad start was only 3 weeks ago. He had back to back games where he gave up 5 runs in around 5 innings. Since then he's been dominating down there. But that's just 3 dominating starts after 13 starts at AAA that have been uneven. Without a doubt he will be back with the Twins this year. Probably sooner rather than later. Next starter that goes down to an injury, Liriano is there. Or if Livan goes back to giving up double digit hits every game, maybe the Twins will pull the plug on him. But either way, I'd be very surprised if Liriano is not with the Twins by the end of July. While I'm sure the Super 2 issue has crossed the minds of the Twins' brain trust, I think that's probably not the reason Liriano is still in AAA. His last bad start was only 3 weeks ago. He had back to back games where he gave up 5 runs in around 5 innings. Since then he's been dominating down there. But that's just 3 dominating starts after 13 starts at AAA that have been uneven.

Without a doubt he will be back with the Twins this year. Probably sooner rather than later. Next starter that goes down to an injury, Liriano is there. Or if Livan goes back to giving up double digit hits every game, maybe the Twins will pull the plug on him. But either way, I'd be very surprised if Liriano is not with the Twins by the end of July.

]]> By: SBG http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/07/17/liriano/#comment-148226 SBG Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:50:36 +0000 http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=6369#comment-148226 Good stuff, but what about Delmon? Does he have any options left? Maybe one. Fifth season on 40 man. Spent all of last season in majors. I think he does have one more option (this year), but cannot be optioned next year. Good stuff, but what about Delmon? Does he have any options left? Maybe one. Fifth season on 40 man. Spent all of last season in majors. I think he does have one more option (this year), but cannot be optioned next year.

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