Cup of Coffee: August 13, 2008

That was one of those horseshoes and hand grenades games.

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  • Once we got into extra innings I knew the Yankees had the advantage. At that point, even though we were the home team, it became a battle of attrition, and that Yankee lineup is better suited to wearing down our bullpen than vice versa.

  • One interesting note about Gardy's bullpen usage, which has been alluded to by others, is that while he is very careful to not overuse Nathan, often resulting in underusing him, he seems to have no problem using and abusing his eighth inning set-up guys, leading to injury and/or ineffectiveness. Guerrier, Neshek, Rincon, Crain, and Romero are all guys who seem to have suffered from this.

    Someone who has more time and/or interest than I can tell me whether this is merely real or anecdotal.

    • Someone who has more time and/or interest than I can tell me whether this is merely real or anecdotal.

      I too would like to see some research on this, because this seems to jive with my impressions as well.

      • I've made this point to Chris Jaffe who is currently writing his book on evaluating baseball managers (I read Chapter 6 for him - managers from 1950-75, and it was fantastic!). I'm hoping he can find some proof of it for his Gardy section (and Jaffe's metrics LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Gardy).

    • Don't you think this is sort of an organizational philosophy that sees middle relievers as dime a dozen guys who don't make much money and hence are expendable (when you use Romero up, you just plug in Rincon, when you use Rincon up, you plug in Crain or Neshek, etc). Closers make tons more money and hence have to be protected more. If you have a middle reliever who holds up to the overuse and pitches effectively he becomes valuable and you either let him walk in FA for big money (Latroy) or move him into your protected closer role (Guardado). Obviously this year it seems to be catching up to them a little bit (Neshek was used up earlier than normal, Guerrer's magic is wearing out, etc) but the last 2 12 inning losses I wouldn't blame on the relief corps as much as Gleeman (monday's column) and Reusse (today's column) have

      KC game Sunday: 8th inning: infield hit (should have been an error), strikeout, groundball with eyes up the middle, groundout, E6, groundout. That's 5 batters out of 6 that should have been retired (with the only a hit a weak grounder up the middle) and yet 2 runs scored. That's the bullpen's fault? And then 3 scoreless innings while the Twins batters failed to score a run before Breslow finally gave up the winning run in the 12th (helped by Punto dropping a relay throw when they had Teahan dead at 2nd and a bad throw by Gomez when they had a play at Teahan at the plate)

      Then last night. Blackburn scuffled through 4 1/3 innings with 4 runs (although again a bad throw by Punto could have had Giambi at the plate). Until the 12th the bullpen had thrown 6 1/3 innings only allowing 2 runs (including Boof bailing Blackburn out of trouble in the 5th). Obviously Guerrer melted down in the 12th, but you can't expect your bullpen to last forever against a powerful lineup. You have to find a way to score 1 more run in the 8th, 9th, 10th, or 11th to win it. The bullpen did a good job of keeping the Twins in the game to make Delmon's 3 run bomb meaningful and then followed it up with 3 scoreless innings after the Young homer and the hitters couldn't get that last run across.

      • You may be right about the organizational philosophy, but then the question becomes whether it's a philosophy that makes sense. Is it really harder to find a closer than a set-up guy? It seems like people come out of nowhere every year and save 25-30 games. Nathan is one of them--hardly anyone knew who he was when he became the closer. Guardado didn't exactly come out of nowhere, but hardly anyone thought of him as closer material--it was only after LaTroy Hawkins was found wanting that Guardado was given the shot. Further, if you're only going to use your closer in the ninth inning when you're ahead by three or fewer runs, it becomes even more important to find set-up guys who, when you have a lead, can preserve it until the ninth.

        Again, I recognize that all this is anecdotal. Once I know WWuD, then I'll have the answer. I just think it's an interesting subject for discussion.

  • SBG

    The Red Sox beat the Rangers 19-17 last night after blowing 10-0 and 12-2 leads. The Red Sox got 10 in the first (with two 3-run jobs by Big Papi) and the Rangers did not make a pitching change! Their starter gave up 12 runs (six earned) on 10 hits and 3 BB in 2 2/3 innings.

    • AMR

      the Rangers did not make a pitching change!

      That's the kind of outside-the-box managerial thinking that people are always clamoring for, right?

      If only the Rangers would have traded for Livan, they could have gotten 18 runs and 6.2 IP out of their starter.

  • Any Jay-Z fans out there? The single off of Blueprint 3 is out - "Jockin' Jay-Z". It reminds me a little of Li'l Wayne's Tha Carter III, which isn't surprising since Jay-Z was on "Mr. Carter" from that album. Best line definitely goes to the Oasis dis (background) - "That bloke from Oasis said I couldn't play guitar. Someone shoulda told him I'm a f**ckin' a rock star. (Gallagher voice) Today is gonna be the day that I'm gonna throw it back to you " Anyway, I'm not sold on it yet, but it has potential.