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	<title>Comments on: Casey Blake Is NOT The Answer At Third Base</title>
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	<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/</link>
	<description>Your Daily Source for Half-Baked Crap</description>
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		<title>By: Big Mak</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169839</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Mak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169839</guid>
		<description>From the point where you put the five-outfielder situation in the derisive quotations it deserved, I was (almost) literally cheering you on (it&#039;s late and people are sleeping).  I hope that Twins management has a similarly clear view of the situation and avoids parting with any of the 5 amigos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the point where you put the five-outfielder situation in the derisive quotations it deserved, I was (almost) literally cheering you on (it's late and people are sleeping).  I hope that Twins management has a similarly clear view of the situation and avoids parting with any of the 5 amigos.</p>
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		<title>By: FirstTimeLongTime</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169830</link>
		<dc:creator>FirstTimeLongTime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 17:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169830</guid>
		<description>It was nice to see this Ubes--  With SBG&#039;s call to arms I was getting very close to writing a much more cluttered version of this very post.

Thank you for saving me the embarrassment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was nice to see this Ubes--  With SBG's call to arms I was getting very close to writing a much more cluttered version of this very post.</p>
<p>Thank you for saving me the embarrassment.</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169826</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 10:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169826</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;m at it, the other two names &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/2008/11/08/more-names-emerge-on-twins-offseason-target-list/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in the blender&lt;/a&gt; are Kevin Kouzmanoff and J.J. Hardy.

Kouzmanoff is about a league average hitter, but appears stretched defensively at third base.  I might not go so far as to consider him a first baseman (like I said with Atkins), but he certainly gives away some of his value on defense.  In fact, with an 11 VORP last year, he may well have overall been a replacement level player.  It seems unlikely that he&#039;s a significant upgrade over Brendan Harris, if he&#039;s even better in the first place.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030070.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PMR really liked Hardy this last year&lt;/a&gt;, though he had a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&amp;linesToDisplay=50&amp;orderBy=zone_rating&amp;direction=DESC&amp;qual_filter=1&amp;season_filter[]=2008&amp;league_filter[]=2&amp;pos_filter[]=6&amp;Submit=Submit&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;weird RZR/OOZ split&lt;/a&gt; this year--a below average rating on plays within his zone, but a ton of out-of-zone plays.  He&#039;s probably an average fielding shortstop, but he had a 113 OPS+ last year and seems to be improving year-by-year at the plate.  He could well be the best player in this entire discussion, but I&#039;m not &lt;i&gt;totally&lt;/i&gt; convinced about his defense.  My vague recollections of watching him play made him seem like he had a strong arm and maybe not good hands (though that could just be me trying to justify his weird RZR/OOZ splits) and I haven&#039;t been impressed with his range, but I&#039;m not sure.  I have to imagine he would cost us a lot of talent...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I'm at it, the other two names <a href="http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/2008/11/08/more-names-emerge-on-twins-offseason-target-list/" rel="nofollow">in the blender</a> are Kevin Kouzmanoff and J.J. Hardy.</p>
<p>Kouzmanoff is about a league average hitter, but appears stretched defensively at third base.  I might not go so far as to consider him a first baseman (like I said with Atkins), but he certainly gives away some of his value on defense.  In fact, with an 11 VORP last year, he may well have overall been a replacement level player.  It seems unlikely that he's a significant upgrade over Brendan Harris, if he's even better in the first place.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030070.php" rel="nofollow">PMR really liked Hardy this last year</a>, though he had a <a href="http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&#038;linesToDisplay=50&#038;orderBy=zone_rating&#038;direction=DESC&#038;qual_filter=1&#038;season_filter[]=2008&#038;league_filter[]=2&#038;pos_filter[]=6&#038;Submit=Submit" rel="nofollow">weird RZR/OOZ split</a> this year--a below average rating on plays within his zone, but a ton of out-of-zone plays.  He's probably an average fielding shortstop, but he had a 113 OPS+ last year and seems to be improving year-by-year at the plate.  He could well be the best player in this entire discussion, but I'm not <i>totally</i> convinced about his defense.  My vague recollections of watching him play made him seem like he had a strong arm and maybe not good hands (though that could just be me trying to justify his weird RZR/OOZ splits) and I haven't been impressed with his range, but I'm not sure.  I have to imagine he would cost us a lot of talent...</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169825</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 10:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169825</guid>
		<description>True, true...though I hear Willie Bloomquist is even grittier than Casey Blake...and there may even be some collegiate punters on the market...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, true...though I hear Willie Bloomquist is even grittier than Casey Blake...and there may even be some collegiate punters on the market...</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169824</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 10:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169824</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll just focus on what I think of Escobar and Atkins--for every player there is a right price in a trade.  (Though I will say that I am super pessimistic about Perkins&#039; future and that he may never look this good again.)

In 230 games as a 23-24-year-old, Escobar has been an above-average hitter and what seems like a league average or slightly above league average fielder.  That&#039;s a quality player.  He was only at about 25 VORP last year, but 25 VORP would have made him our 3rd-best everyday player.  Well, Span probably passes him in overall value since he&#039;s probably a better fielder relative to his position than Escobar, but still, you&#039;re looking at someone about that good.  Not a superstar, but probably a fringe All-Star many years and an All-Star in a career year.

Generally speaking I would stay far, far away from Atkins.  He has a career 108 OPS+, which is definitely solid as far as hitting skills go, but PMR rates him as a very poor (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023949.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;worst in the majors in 2007&lt;/a&gt;) fielder at third base, so I would say that it&#039;s more appropriate to think of him as a first baseman playing out of position, much the same way that Harris was a third baseman playing out of position in Tampa.  Atkins has stayed healthy, but at 29, he&#039;s starting to get old and the poor fielding probably means he&#039;s not all that athletic, so I would be scared about his aging curve.  If you park adjust his raw numbers the last three years, he had 26, 23, and 19 HR, and got a boatload of at-bats.  I&#039;m not impressed.

As far as third basemen we could get in a trade, Adrian Beltre has a career OPS+ of 107, and would be in a contract year next year.  He&#039;s also probably 30-35 runs better than Atkins on defense (though I think age and minor injuries throughout his career may be beginning to hinder his defensive abilities somewhat), which makes a huge, huge difference.  If the Twins aren&#039;t contending at the deadline, he could be flipped, or they could let him walk for draft picks at the end of the season.  I don&#039;t know what it would take to get him, but there was a dialog with the previous GM, who knows what the new GM would be looking for.  Word is that they don&#039;t expect they can re-sign him, so he&#039;ll certainly be on the block.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll just focus on what I think of Escobar and Atkins--for every player there is a right price in a trade.  (Though I will say that I am super pessimistic about Perkins' future and that he may never look this good again.)</p>
<p>In 230 games as a 23-24-year-old, Escobar has been an above-average hitter and what seems like a league average or slightly above league average fielder.  That's a quality player.  He was only at about 25 VORP last year, but 25 VORP would have made him our 3rd-best everyday player.  Well, Span probably passes him in overall value since he's probably a better fielder relative to his position than Escobar, but still, you're looking at someone about that good.  Not a superstar, but probably a fringe All-Star many years and an All-Star in a career year.</p>
<p>Generally speaking I would stay far, far away from Atkins.  He has a career 108 OPS+, which is definitely solid as far as hitting skills go, but PMR rates him as a very poor (<a href="http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/023949.php" rel="nofollow">worst in the majors in 2007</a>) fielder at third base, so I would say that it's more appropriate to think of him as a first baseman playing out of position, much the same way that Harris was a third baseman playing out of position in Tampa.  Atkins has stayed healthy, but at 29, he's starting to get old and the poor fielding probably means he's not all that athletic, so I would be scared about his aging curve.  If you park adjust his raw numbers the last three years, he had 26, 23, and 19 HR, and got a boatload of at-bats.  I'm not impressed.</p>
<p>As far as third basemen we could get in a trade, Adrian Beltre has a career OPS+ of 107, and would be in a contract year next year.  He's also probably 30-35 runs better than Atkins on defense (though I think age and minor injuries throughout his career may be beginning to hinder his defensive abilities somewhat), which makes a huge, huge difference.  If the Twins aren't contending at the deadline, he could be flipped, or they could let him walk for draft picks at the end of the season.  I don't know what it would take to get him, but there was a dialog with the previous GM, who knows what the new GM would be looking for.  Word is that they don't expect they can re-sign him, so he'll certainly be on the block.</p>
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		<title>By: Whiffers</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169802</link>
		<dc:creator>Whiffers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 03:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169802</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know much about Escobar, but I&#039;m not a fan of going after Atkins.  His road stats haven&#039;t been very good for a couple years now (really bad this year) and he&#039;s about to get expensive.  I&#039;d gladly take him back for Perkins, but not for any of the other young starters.

I&#039;m with you on this one Ubes; a 3-year contract to a mediocre 35-year old 3B is just a bad idea for a team with the Twins&#039; limited resources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't know much about Escobar, but I'm not a fan of going after Atkins.  His road stats haven't been very good for a couple years now (really bad this year) and he's about to get expensive.  I'd gladly take him back for Perkins, but not for any of the other young starters.</p>
<p>I'm with you on this one Ubes; a 3-year contract to a mediocre 35-year old 3B is just a bad idea for a team with the Twins' limited resources.</p>
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		<title>By: E-6</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169796</link>
		<dc:creator>E-6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169796</guid>
		<description>Ditto. Great to see that byline, ubes.

What are your thoughts on Rockie&#039;s 3B Atkins or Atlanta SS Escobar--two other players Joe C said the club was interested in? Neither are free agents, so talent would need to be surrendered to acquire them. Are they worth giving up one of our starters? Methinks Perkins couldn&#039;t pry them away from their respective clubs unless incriminating photos of club officials were involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto. Great to see that byline, ubes.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts on Rockie's 3B Atkins or Atlanta SS Escobar--two other players Joe C said the club was interested in? Neither are free agents, so talent would need to be surrendered to acquire them. Are they worth giving up one of our starters? Methinks Perkins couldn't pry them away from their respective clubs unless incriminating photos of club officials were involved.</p>
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		<title>By: davidwatts</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169795</link>
		<dc:creator>davidwatts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169795</guid>
		<description>I think you are missing one thing in your analysis ubes,  Blake&#039;s &quot;grittiness&quot;. That alone is worth $10 mil!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are missing one thing in your analysis ubes,  Blake's "grittiness". That alone is worth $10 mil!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff A</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/11/08/casey-blake-is-not-the-answer-at-third-base/#comment-169793</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=8924#comment-169793</guid>
		<description>If this will get you out of retirement, ubes, I&#039;ll start planting some rumors myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this will get you out of retirement, ubes, I'll start planting some rumors myself.</p>
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