NYTimes: Tough times for Seattle Fans

November 21st, 2008 by SBG

Yep, things could be better in the Land of Latte, but suggesting that the current sports scene in Seattle is the worst ever would generate some belly laughs for long suffering Cleveland fans.

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This entry was posted by SBG on Friday, November 21st, 2008 at 11:50 am and is filed under WGOM Headlines. It is one of 2471 entries by the author. Feel free to write a letter to the editor if you are a registered SBG Nation Citizen. If you are not a Citizen, you can register here.



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ubelmann replied on November 21, 2008 at 3:01:49 pm

I think those Cleveland fans would be pretty delusional. Without doing exhaustive research, I'm going to say that they've never had these things happen simultaneously:

NBA team finishes 20-62, 2nd worst in the NBA essentially forfeiting the season while stockpiling draft picks for the future--and then leaves for Oklahoma City, after 40 years in Seattle, 1 NBA title, 3 conference titles, and 6 division titles.

MLB team finishes 61-101, 2nd worst in MLB, despite gigantic payroll and public expectations that they would compete for the division title. (These were delusional expectations, but still.)

NFL team currently 2-8, 4th worst in the NFL, with a ton of injuries taking them out of contention for an otherwise winnable division. 5 of their remaining 6 games are against winning teams.

And on top of each and every of their professional teams being either a complete mess or having been outsourced to OKC, Huskies football, which has 2 national titles and 5 conference titles in the last 20 years, and a generally proud tradition, has precisely *zero* wins in 10 games so far this year and looks to be one of the worst teams in the country.

Maybe Cleveland has a year like that out there if you look farther back, but I'm skeptical. Browns fans were told in '95 that their team would be leaving town, but hell, the Indians were a 100-game winner that year in a 144-game season, kicking off a stretch of 7 straight seasons where they were competitive for a championship every year. And the Cavs made the playoffs 6 times in the '90s, including '94-'95 and '95-'96.

I have a feeling that a lot of the "suffering" in Cleveland has to do with playoff losses. At this point, any kind of playoff appearance in Seattle would be a major victory compared to how things have been going.

ubelmann replied on November 21, 2008 at 3:05:35 pm

I mean, I'm having trouble seeing how sports could be worse in Seattle right now. Multiple teams leave town at the same time? Each team finishes exactly dead last in their league? Stadiums burn down and teams forced to play all of their games on the road? College football team misses half of their games because they were too high to make it to the field?

AMR replied on November 21, 2008 at 4:16:51 pm

Ways it could get worse:

Having to forfeit games due to a riot at a poorly-conceived gimmick night designed to destroy copies of recorded music from a certain genre. (Could the Seahawks get up an emo dEMOlition night before the season is over?)

Having fans rush on the the field and assault some coaches.

SBG replied on November 21, 2008 at 4:47:16 pm

Of course, Cleveland had 10 cent beer night, which resulted in a forfeit because of rioting.

A large number of intoxicated fans – some armed with knives, chains, and portions of stadium seats that they had torn apart – surged onto the field, and others hurled bottles from the stands. Realizing that the Rangers' lives might be in danger, Ken Aspromonte, the Indians' manager, ordered his players to grab bats and help the Rangers. Rioters began throwing steel folding chairs, and Cleveland relief pitcher Tom Hilgendorf was hit in the head by one of them. Hargrove, involved in a fistfight with a rioter, had to fight another on his way back to the Texas dugout.

Among the Indians players suddenly running for his life was Rusty Torres, who was on second base at the time (and represented the winning run). In his career, Torres wound up seeing three big-league baseball riots close up; he was also there at the Senators' final game in Washington in 1971, and would play for the Chicago White Sox during the infamous Disco Demolition Night in 1979.

The bases were pulled up and stolen (never to be returned) and many rioters threw a vast array of objects including cups, rocks, bottles, batteries from radios, hot dogs, popcorn containers, and folding chairs. As a result, umpire crew chief Nestor Chylak, realizing that order would not be restored in a timely fashion, forfeited the game to Texas. He too was a victim of the rioters as one struck him with part of a stadium seat, cutting his head.[4] His hand was also cut by a thrown rock.

As Joe Tait and Herb Score called the riot live on radio, Score mentioned the lack of police protection; a riot squad from the Cleveland police department finally arrived to restore order.

 
 
 
 
SBG replied on November 21, 2008 at 3:40:28 pm

Cleveland has no championships in any sport since 1964.

The Browns have never gone to the Super Bowl, but had their heart cut out twice by Elway's Broncos in the AFC title game. They gave up a 98 yard drive to miss the Super Bowl ("The Drive") in one of those games and had one of their best players fumble as he was about to cross the goal line and clinch a trip to the Super Bowl in another ("The Fumble"). Despite selling out every game, their team leaves town and then wins a Super Bowl in Baltimore. Replacement team is absolutely putrid.

Indians haven't won the World Series since 1948. They went 41 years between playoff appearances from 1954 to 1995. The 1954 team won a then record 111 games and got swept in the World Series. They never finished better than 5th in a seven team division (and then only once) over a 12 year stretch from 1978 to 1989. A pre-season pick in 1987 to win the World Series (by SI), they finished 61-101. The Indians were absolutely pathetic for forty years. 40! In three World series over the past sixty years, they got swept (1954), gave the Braves their only championship of the 90s (1995) and blew a lead in the bottom of the ninth of the seventh game (1997).

The Cavaliers have been a decent club, but their playoff success has been about as good as the T-Wolves. A 57 win club goes down in the first round in 1989, shot through the heart by a buzzer beater by Jordan in the deciding game five over Craig Ehlo. Jordan pretty much destroyed the psyche of that club in subsequent years. It's not like they haven't had rough times, too, with 14 seasons of 30 or fewer wins, with a pair of 15 win seasons and a 17 win season. Plus, their greatest athlete ever is homegrown and he comes to playoff games wearing Yankee hats and to a Browns/Cowboys game wearing a Cowboys jersey. He's also likely to bolt for free agency as soon as he possibly can. One appearance in the NBA finals and one division title in 38 seasons.

Their NHL team was merged into the Minnesota North Stars. They didn't fold, the team didn't move, it merged into another team. Despite the fact that the Cleveland ownership group retained ownership and the team played in Cleveland's spot in the league, the team itself was located in Minnesota.

Oh, the indignity of it all.

Cleveland has a solid case.

ubelmann replied on November 21, 2008 at 4:05:22 pm

I think losing in the playoffs is overrated as far as its negative impact on a fan base. Whole-scale losing is much worse. If you're good enough to make the playoffs, or at least be .500, it's worth your while to watch because, hey, your team has a chance to win. At this point, if you are a Seattle fan, it's nearly impossible to go to a game and expect your team to win. That is demoralizing.

If you are talking about long-term failure, I can see a case for Cleveland, but if we're talking about how bad things are at a particular point in time, I don't see a case for any particular time in Cleveland's past being as bad as things are in Seattle right now.

SBG replied on November 21, 2008 at 4:41:16 pm

In 1990, the Browns were 3-13. The following spring the Indians were 57-105. In between, the 1990-91 Cavs were 33-49. That ain't too good.

 
 
 
brianS replied on November 21, 2008 at 6:00:21 pm

Seattle fans get to live in Seattle. Cleveland fans get to live in Cleveland.

Cleveland suffering >> Seattle suffering. Q.E.D.

ubelmann replied on November 21, 2008 at 7:39:43 pm
 
Dread Pirate Will Young replied on November 24, 2008 at 9:20:22 am

When the SABR Convention was in Cleveland last summer, it seemed like we went to a ghost town. "I went to visit Cleveland, but it was closed."

brianS replied on November 24, 2008 at 11:40:54 am

You have to go across the river into Ohio City to find the action. Or at least the good beer.

 
 
 
FirstTimeLongTime replied on November 23, 2008 at 10:13:47 pm

Are we really just going to leave Buffalo out of this discussion? We are losing our football team in the not too distant future, our basketball team became the Clippers and we, too, have not won a Championship worth championing (of course, I don't include Buffalo Bandits and their domination of the Major Indoor Lacrosse League) since the mid 60's with the AFL Buffalo Bills.

I understand that Seattle has it quite bad right now, and Cleveland has had a rough go of it for the past 60 years or so, but gees, Buffalo at least deserves a mention.

SBG replied on November 24, 2008 at 7:47:37 am

Not only that, but Brett Hull was in the crease and your best athlete ever was a homicidal maniac.

FirstTimeLongTime replied on November 24, 2008 at 8:04:14 am

Thurman Thomas was a homicidal maniac?

 
 
brianS replied on November 24, 2008 at 12:02:50 pm

I dunno, FTLT. Does having your NBA team leave to become the Clippers really count as a negative??

I really liked the Braves back in the day. Randy Smith may have been my favorite. Plus, Dr. Jack as coach?!

FirstTimeLongTime replied on November 24, 2008 at 12:27:34 pm

Losing a sports team, no matter how bad they turned out to be, is always a negative. I know that the Buffalo economy is not what it once was, and I understand why the team left, but the fact remains that the Braves would have been something else for me to root for. At this point, I have no favorite team in the Association. I mean, I root for players, I root for strong performances, and compelling match ups, but no one team has my undivided attention (i.e. Twins, Sabres, Bills). Maybe it is for the best that Buffalo doesn't have a third major sports franchise. It keeps us out of these discussions about which city has the worst sports teams. The truth is, we don't need any more negative press on our fair city.

So, now, the more that I think about it, maybe you are right. Maybe it is best that I am not left to root for the Clippers, nee Braves. It makes for a little less heartbreak.

Plus, if I already had three teams to root for in Buffalo, maybe I would have never become a baseball fan. And wouldn't that have been the biggest tragedy of them all?

 
 
 
E-6 replied on November 23, 2008 at 10:26:05 pm

our basketball team became the Clippers...
That's actually a win for the city! :)

(In all seriousness, ask an older Buffalonian about Bob McAdoo and Ernie D. That was a dynamic duo.)

brianS replied on November 24, 2008 at 9:07:27 am

don't forget Elmore Smith!

He was part of an enviable string of first-round draft picks (Smith, McAdoo and Ernie D in consecutive years; the latter two were ROYs and Smith was All-Rookie, averaging 17 and 15).

E-6 replied on November 24, 2008 at 9:20:38 am

Or Randy Smith, for that matter.

Here's a little light reading on the subject, FTLT.

FirstTimeLongTime replied on November 24, 2008 at 9:44:03 am

I have actually done quite a bit of research about the Braves. Sure, I may not have been born when they left, but as a wanna be Buffalo historian I find the story of the Braves quite interesting.

 
brianS replied on November 24, 2008 at 12:05:12 pm

ooooh, I'd forgotten that Adrian Dantley began as a Brave. Ouch. traded for Billy Knight! That's gotta sting.

 
 
 
 
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