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	<title>Comments on: Looking Back At The Delmon Debacle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/</link>
	<description>Your Daily Source for Half-Baked Crap</description>
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		<title>By: SBG</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171843</link>
		<dc:creator>SBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171843</guid>
		<description>I had forgotten his impassioned defense of Rivas.  Good times!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had forgotten his impassioned defense of Rivas.  Good times!</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171839</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171839</guid>
		<description>LOL.  I was just reading Joe Posnanski the other day and saw that David Wintheiser comment on something.  I remember lots of back and forths with him on John Bonnes&#039; Twins Territory (where I got my start in blogging, I should add), and I was thinking to myself how I was happy to not have him around anymore.

What would frustrate the hell out of me is that I&#039;m convinced most of the time he knows his arguments are bullshit.  He might believe that Delmon is better than Gomez, but he knows that he&#039;s created a bullshit argument to that effect.  (Replete with strawmen of various shapes and sizes.)  At the time, it was always Luis Rivas.  I thought that people were too hard on Rivas in general--not because Rivas was great, but because he was taking up essentially zero payroll.  Rivas wasn&#039;t good, but he wasn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;the problem&lt;/i&gt;, either.  But DW was constantly talking about how Rivas was going to go on to have a great career, blah, blah, blah.  

At any rate, I&#039;ve decided that it&#039;s not worth engaging in any kind of discourse with someone whose stated intention is simply to disagree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL.  I was just reading Joe Posnanski the other day and saw that David Wintheiser comment on something.  I remember lots of back and forths with him on John Bonnes' Twins Territory (where I got my start in blogging, I should add), and I was thinking to myself how I was happy to not have him around anymore.</p>
<p>What would frustrate the hell out of me is that I'm convinced most of the time he knows his arguments are bullshit.  He might believe that Delmon is better than Gomez, but he knows that he's created a bullshit argument to that effect.  (Replete with strawmen of various shapes and sizes.)  At the time, it was always Luis Rivas.  I thought that people were too hard on Rivas in general--not because Rivas was great, but because he was taking up essentially zero payroll.  Rivas wasn't good, but he wasn't <i>the problem</i>, either.  But DW was constantly talking about how Rivas was going to go on to have a great career, blah, blah, blah.  </p>
<p>At any rate, I've decided that it's not worth engaging in any kind of discourse with someone whose stated intention is simply to disagree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: brianS</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171837</link>
		<dc:creator>brianS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171837</guid>
		<description>War? Huh. What is it good for?
&lt;object width=&quot;425&quot; height=&quot;344&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;movie&quot; value=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/Cv5BYEOQYLo&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowFullScreen&quot; value=&quot;true&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowscriptaccess&quot; value=&quot;always&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/Cv5BYEOQYLo&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowscriptaccess=&quot;always&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; width=&quot;425&quot; height=&quot;344&quot;&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>War? Huh. What is it good for?<br />
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cv5BYEOQYLo&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cv5BYEOQYLo&#038;hl=en&#038;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object></p>
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		<title>By: SBG</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171835</link>
		<dc:creator>SBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171835</guid>
		<description>No war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No war.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171834</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171834</guid>
		<description>Geeze, Boss, don&#039;t start up another war like the last one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geeze, Boss, don't start up another war like the last one.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhubarb_Runner</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171833</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhubarb_Runner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171833</guid>
		<description>He enjoys being the contrarian, even when one isn&#039;t needed.  Just because.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He enjoys being the contrarian, even when one isn't needed.  Just because.</p>
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		<title>By: SBG</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171832</link>
		<dc:creator>SBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171832</guid>
		<description>He&#039;s a passionate guy and he defends difficult positions sometimes, to put it kindly.  But, look.  He starts out by asserting that ubes was saying that the season was a debacle and not the trade.  He swiftly knocks down that strawman -- and it goes downhill from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He's a passionate guy and he defends difficult positions sometimes, to put it kindly.  But, look.  He starts out by asserting that ubes was saying that the season was a debacle and not the trade.  He swiftly knocks down that strawman -- and it goes downhill from there.</p>
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		<title>By: E-6</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171831</link>
		<dc:creator>E-6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171831</guid>
		<description>Nicely filleted, doc. You did clean up the poor guy&#039;s kitchen afterwards, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely filleted, doc. You did clean up the poor guy's kitchen afterwards, right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: brianS</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171827</link>
		<dc:creator>brianS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171827</guid>
		<description>was I nice? That was a funny post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>was I nice? That was a funny post.</p>
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		<title>By: SBG</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171819</link>
		<dc:creator>SBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171819</guid>
		<description>You all think ubelmann is so smart.  Well, David Wintheiser thinks you are all rubes.  He takes apart this article &lt;a href=&quot;http://thealcentralblog.com/2008/12/interlude-that-was-quick.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  He&#039;s never been a fan of mine, so I think he takes particular delight in ripping ME to shreds, mistakenly thinking that I wrote this.  My favorite part of the article is this beautiful little ad hominem:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Right off the bat I have a problem -- sure, SBG is an internet guy and reaches for the hyperbole a bit more often than would be warranted by a more sober analyst, but to describe a season where Young served as the primary Twins left-fielder and helped the club to force a 163rd game to determine the outcome of the AL Central division title as a &#039;debacle&#039; is a bit beyond the pale.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Let David know how you feel.  But, be nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You all think ubelmann is so smart.  Well, David Wintheiser thinks you are all rubes.  He takes apart this article <a href="http://thealcentralblog.com/2008/12/interlude-that-was-quick.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  He's never been a fan of mine, so I think he takes particular delight in ripping ME to shreds, mistakenly thinking that I wrote this.  My favorite part of the article is this beautiful little ad hominem:</p>
<blockquote><p>Right off the bat I have a problem -- sure, SBG is an internet guy and reaches for the hyperbole a bit more often than would be warranted by a more sober analyst, but to describe a season where Young served as the primary Twins left-fielder and helped the club to force a 163rd game to determine the outcome of the AL Central division title as a 'debacle' is a bit beyond the pale.</p></blockquote>
<p>Let David know how you feel.  But, be nice.</p>
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		<title>By: E-6</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171781</link>
		<dc:creator>E-6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171781</guid>
		<description>As far as I&#039;m concerned, your blind squirrel has X-Ray vision, ubes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I'm concerned, your blind squirrel has X-Ray vision, ubes.</p>
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		<title>By: ubelmann</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171779</link>
		<dc:creator>ubelmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171779</guid>
		<description>I knew I would earn my Blind Squirrel badge sooner or later. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew I would earn my Blind Squirrel badge sooner or later. <img src='http://stickandballguy.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/tango-smileys-extended/tango24/smile.png' alt='Smile' title='Smile' class='tse-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: DK</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171777</link>
		<dc:creator>DK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171777</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s particularly amusing that you mention the Brewers probably taking Morlan for Gross since they just DID take Morlan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's particularly amusing that you mention the Brewers probably taking Morlan for Gross since they just DID take Morlan.</p>
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		<title>By: Whiffers</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171706</link>
		<dc:creator>Whiffers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171706</guid>
		<description>Good analysis, as always.  I didn&#039;t like the deal when it happened and grew to like it less as the year passed.

I wonder about the opportunity cost of trading Garza for the wrong guy.  The Twins can&#039;t afford bad exchange rates on their valuable chips, especially cheap ones under team control.  Would the Reds have taken him for Hamilton?  Does adding Garza back in the young pitchers mix makes a JJ Hardy trade with the Brewers more likely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good analysis, as always.  I didn't like the deal when it happened and grew to like it less as the year passed.</p>
<p>I wonder about the opportunity cost of trading Garza for the wrong guy.  The Twins can't afford bad exchange rates on their valuable chips, especially cheap ones under team control.  Would the Reds have taken him for Hamilton?  Does adding Garza back in the young pitchers mix makes a JJ Hardy trade with the Brewers more likely?</p>
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		<title>By: Moss</title>
		<link>http://stickandballguy.com/blog/2008/12/11/looking-back-at-the-delmon-debacle/#comment-171645</link>
		<dc:creator>Moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stickandballguy.com/blog/?p=9445#comment-171645</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget that the trade was also done to get Garza out of Gardenhire&#039;s clubhouse. Apparently he&#039;s not familiar with the &quot;Better the devil you know...&quot; philosophy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don't forget that the trade was also done to get Garza out of Gardenhire's clubhouse. Apparently he's not familiar with the "Better the devil you know..." philosophy.</p>
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