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ubelmann  December 31, 2009, at 3:20 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Corey Koskie, Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins
May not be who first comes to mind. Rally has a good breakdown of the comparison in these comments:
I'll look at Morneau's good years, 2006-2009, and compare to Koskie's best years, 2000-2003.
WAR: CK 16.7 [runs], JM, 14.4 [runs]
Batting: CK 52 [runs], JM 116 [runs] - Big difference here, and batting numbers are going to agree, show the same story if you use baseruns, OPS+, RC, or any of the good numbers. No dispute that Morneau is the much better hitter.
Baserunning: CK average (includes reach on error and avoiding DP), JM -9 [runs]
Koskie was a better baserunner but it's not a big deal
Defense (includes turning DP): JM -7 [runs], CK +33 [runs]
This is where Koskie starts to make up ground. You might disagree with this. Perhaps UZR or +/-, more detailed defensive metrics, disagree but I haven't checked. What my numbers say is that Morneau is about an average defender at first and Koskie was an above average defender at 3rd.
Finally, position adjustment Koskie +8 [runs], Morneau -41 [runs]. This is where Koskie pulls ahead.
I don't like to talk much about who or what gets overrated, but Morneau has a lot of things going for him which make it easy to see why his perceived value might be greater than his actual value. His greatest skill--hitting for power--is both obvious and flashy. His first-half OPS is better than his second-half OPS by about 100 points. And by being a great first-half hitter, he has good counting stats below his name on television broadcasts for the large part of the season. First impressions matter, and he essentially makes a good first impression each year and then peters out. He plays a position that the media loves to promote. Every year it seems that there are roughly 10 first basemen on each All-Star team and half of the MVP candidates are first basemen, despite the fact that the vast majority of these guys couldn't possibly play any other position on the field because they don't have that much defensive value.
That 2006 MVP win seems to have really gotten Morneau off the hook for any sort of criticism in the local media. He was supposed to have tons of power, but over the last four years, he's only hit maybe 4-5 more home runs per year than Hunter did in most of his healthy years. He has routinely faded in the second half of the season and at least so far, no one has really raised doubts about how his injury may affect his performance going forward, even though back injuries seem to become chronic more often than not.
Anyway, I think Morneau has been a very good player, but I tend to agree that Koskie was better, at least during the arbitrary period of 2000 to 2009.
ubelmann  September 16, 2009, at 4:49 am  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins
More on Morneau:
First, some background: Morneau was the 2006 American League MVP and finished strong that year, batting .345 with 20 RBI over the season's final month.
Morneau hit fine for average that September, but his power really dropped off. In 2006, Morneau's ISO by month:
.208 -- April
.231 -- May
.373 -- June
.290 -- July
.196 -- August
.142 -- September
I wouldn't especially call that finishing strong, especially for a guy whose calling card is supposed to be power. (And the 20 RBI--if you really must use RBI--were the second-least he had in any month that year.) It wasn't like his drop-off in other years, but it wasn't strong either.
ubelmann  September 13, 2009, at 8:58 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins, MVP
(So tweets Joe Christensen.)
Not that I'm happy about it, but I've suspected this might be the case for a while. (And it's not the first time the Twins have had a Canadian corner infielder come down with back problems.)
I've read some people (LEN3 in particular) dismiss the difficulty of playing 162 games at first base, but all those games on turf add up eventually, regardless of which position you are playing. Sure, playing first base is easier on your body than other positions (certainly a lot easier on your body than catching), but that doesn't mean it's easy to make it through 162 games without getting injured or wearing down at all.
Maybe Morneau was so outspoken about the Twins getting additional help because he was expecting to wear down in the last two months for the 13th season in a row. For all the promise he usually shows at the beginning of the season, he's never hit more than 34 HR in a season, and has averaged just under 30 HR for the last four years. That's great, but there are 14 players in baseball who have had more home runs over that span. It's not like he's a bad player by any stretch, I just don't understand how he gets so much MVP love. (By contrast, Joe Mauer has the second-best batting average in baseball over that time span, fourth-best OBP, and he plays catcher.)
Anyway, at this point in the season, the Twins' chances at the playoffs are essentially zero and they should focus on getting Morneau healthy. From my standpoint, I want to see Mauer get some nice, round, meaningless numbers to help bolster his MVP candidacy. Some markers he could reach:
30 HR -- He's at 27 now. If he breaks 30, he might out-homer Morneau for 2009.
100 RBI -- He's at 84 now. This is going to be difficult with only one good OBP guy hitting in front of him, just like it's been pretty difficult all year. (Also, some IBB's--IBB's that gave Morneau a shot to hit with an extra man on base--in RBI situations have hurt his chances for a gaudy RBI total.) 16 in two weeks is probably too much to ask, but 3-4 HR in the right spots could go a long way towards those 16 RBI.
Batting title -- He's sitting in first now, with a decent, but not insurmountable lead over Ichiro. It would be surprising if he finished any worse than second in average in the AL.
.362 average -- He's at .366 now. .362 is the best average ever by an AL catcher. .362 is also what Piazza hit in '97, the best batting average by a catcher post-WWII.
.367 average -- This is Babe Phelps' record for the best batting average post-1900.
Even if he doesn't get all of these, I think Mauer's got a legit shot at getting the MVP award. There's not all that much of an East-coast bias for the MVP since each market gets equal representation in the voting. But if he can win the batting title, hit 30 HR, drive in 100 RBI, while playing strong defense at catcher, I think he can win over a fair number of voters who don't care much about modern stats. Without the round numbers, I fear that he'll lose out to someone who had better teammates this year.
ubelmann  August 27, 2009, at 2:17 am  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Fielding Statistics, First Basemen, Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins
And neither is Mark Teixeira, for that matter. Baseball Info Solutions keeps track of "scoops above average", and Justin Morneau is nowhere to be found amongst the leaders:
| Player |
Saved Throws |
Missed Throws |
Scoop Percentage |
Scoops
Above Average |
| Casey Kotchman |
69 |
5 |
93% |
9 |
| Todd Helton |
79 |
9 |
90% |
7 |
| Carlos Pena |
66 |
8 |
89% |
6 |
| Albert Pujols |
82 |
12 |
87% |
6 |
| Ross Gload |
34 |
2 |
94% |
5 |
| Ryan Garko |
30 |
2 |
94% |
4 |
| Carlos Delgado |
42 |
5 |
89% |
4 |
| Derrek Lee |
61 |
9 |
87% |
4 |
| Nick Swisher |
21 |
1 |
95% |
3 |
| Jason Giambi |
37 |
5 |
88% |
3 |
I would also note that this is for 2008-9 combined, so that over the course of roughly 290 team games, no first baseman is above average by more than 9 catches or below average by 6 catches. For comparison, in earning base hits--something that Morneau is definitely good at--Justin is 34 hits above average over that time span. Albert Pujols is 76 hits above average over that time span.
Being able to receive difficult throws from infielders is a nice skill to have, but the variance in that ability amongst major league first basemen is pretty small, small enough that you're probably not going to notice which first basemen are really helping their teams the most in that area.
ubelmann  August 19, 2009, at 2:54 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins, MVP
I only bring this up because I have been having an email conversation with one of my friends today and she suggested that Morneau (and Mauer) -- in that order and with those parentheses -- should get some MVP consideration this year. And I just find this mind-boggling.
Joe Posnanski has been all over this lately, but I guess it never really hurts to spread the word. If Mauer can keep up what he's done so far this season, it won't just be a very good season that kind of warrants MVP consideration. No, if Joe Mauer keeps this up, he will have had the best season that any catcher in the history of baseball has ever had. No catcher has ever done what Mauer is doing right now for a whole season. Not Johnny Bench, not Yogi Berra, not Mike Piazza, not Ivan Rodriguez, not Carlton Fisk, not Roy Campanella, not Gary Carter, not Ted Simmons, not anyone.* What Mauer has been doing is truly historic. Morneau is a good player, a great player even, but he's done absolutely nothing that is remotely close to being historic.
*And of course Mauer hasn't finished the season yet, either.
Let's take a couple of lists. First, the list of best career OPS+ by first basemen* with more than 2,500 plate appearances, from 1901-present:
Click here to continue reading Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau...
spookymilk  July 27, 2009, at 6:00 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Chicago White Sox, Denard Span, Detroit Tigers, Glen Perkins, Guest Writers, John Danks, Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins, spookymilk
Today, the Twins basically do what they're always doing during my game logs: try to reach .500, and try to do it while winning on Monday for the second time.
Encouraging stat of the day: Morneau, Morneau and Span yesterday brought the Twins' homer total to 111, which is good enough to tie the mark they reached in 2008. If "wasting history" is an exaggeration, then dude, it can't be by much. Having a Twins team with power - something we've all wanted for years - and not winning is a bit deflating, even though we all know we're dealing with a pretty uninspiring pitching staff.
Other encouraging thing of the day: it's the White Sox at home, which is usually a recipe for success, since the Metrodome has magical powers that Chicago teams are woefully unprepared to withstand.
John Danks 8-6, 3.98 ERA, 103.1 IP, 92 K - 40 BB, 4.23 xFIP

Glen Perkins 5-6, 5.55 ERA, 84.1 IP, 40 K - 20 BB, 4.91 xFIP

Perkins is just one of the starters who's struggling because he doesn't strike anyone out, though his various owies are a big contributor.
Tonight the Twins start the kind of series that they've been able to dominate in the past in this building, and they can leapfrog the White Sox with a sweep and gain ground on the Tigers, who have to visit Texas. Though the last week was devastating, the Twins ended up in the same spot as they were in when the road trip started, and this division is still plenty winnable. However, if the Twins are going to win it, this is the kind of series they absolutely need to keep taking.
Go Twins!
socaltwinsfan  April 9, 2009, at 2:01 am  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Brian Bass, Dan Gladden, Jason Kubel, Justin Morneau, Minnesota Twins
1987
*
*
2000
*
*
2006
*
*
2007
*
2008
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Dan Gladden's pinch-hit, two-run single caps the Twins' three-run rally in the bottom of the ninth inning in a 5-4 victory that completed a season-opening three-game sweep of the Oakland A's. The rally came against Jay Howell, who came in after Dennis Eckersley pitched 2 2/3 scoreless innings. Eckersley didn't take over as the A's full-time closer until July in a switch that would propel him into the Hall of Fame.
The Twins beat the Royals, 13-7, as both teams each hit three consecutive home runs in the same game for the first time in major league history. Ron Coomer, Jacque Jones and Matt Lecroy connect consecutively in the sixth for Minnesota and Carlos Beltran, Jermaine Dye and Mike SweeneyHector Carrasco go back-to-back-to-back for Kansas City.
The Indians beat the Twins and Johan Santana 3-2 to complete a three-game sweep and drop the Twins to 1-5 on their season-opening five-game road trip. The Twins would go 95-61 the rest of the way to win the AL Central division on the final game of the season.
Justin Morneau hit a walkoff home run to lead off the bottom of the ninth inning off Brian Stokes in a 3-2 victory over Tampa Bay. Carlos Silva took a no-decision despite pitching 6 2/3 scoreless innings.
Jason Kubel had a grand slam and six RBIs and Brian Bass pitched four effective innings to earn his only major league save in a 12-5 victory over the White Sox on a cold night in Chicago. |
SBG  February 27, 2009, at 6:46 am  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Justin Morneau, Six Word Player Evaluations
The rules are simple. Describe the player in question in six words. You can enter as many times as you wish. Then, we vote on the entries to find the best answer (or best three answers). There were a lot of entries for Mauer, and hopefully all the players will generate enough interest to make this fun. The poll on the bottom is for Mauer. Vote for up to five of your favorites. Anyone can vote here, not just SBG Nation Citizens (but really, if you are reading and voting in polls, why not just take the plunge and sign up?).
And now, here's my submission for Justin Morneau: 2006 MVP, but third best Twin.
And now, the poll:
Pick your favorite Joe Mauer Six Word Evaluations
- He ain't Jesus, but close enough -- 32%
- What a pansy: enough fake injuries. -- 2%
- Minnesotans rake, and he proves it. -- 5%
- Perennial MVP candidate - bite me, Torii. -- 13%
- Hits only singles, move to third. -- 3%
- Should have taken Mark Prior first. -- 9%
- Two batting crowns; needs a ring. -- 24%
- Hall of Fame will be calling. -- 17%
- The real MVP; shove it, Morneau. -- 9%
- sweet swing, sideburns, savior of baseball -- 13%
- The Second Coming in baseball cleats -- 2%
- Born in manger, bat in hands -- 20%
- Hits and hits and hits and -- 9%
- a Liriano fastball: his favorite cheese -- 0%
- R.A. Dickey cometh: Bring bigger mitt -- 0%
- When does he move to third? -- 6%
- QuickSwing, by Mauer. Best invention ever? -- 1%
- Recipient of our non-sexual man crushes -- 9%
- Public speaking definitely not a strength -- 2%
- Thick Minnesota Accent: Embarrassing on MLBTV. -- 3%
- Batting Champs don't care about homers. -- 16%
- Shot to the gap, rinse, repeat -- -95%
Total Voters: 87
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SBG  February 26, 2009, at 9:59 am  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Justin Morneau, Non-story of the Week
The Twins are really (I mean it) really serious about Spring Training. So serious that Justin Morneau paid Gardy $100 for not doing his running. Serious! (Not serious enough to go out and do the running, but hey, he flipped Gardy a C-Note for dinner.) The best part is that the article is entitled, "Twins showing early focus" and then relates how Morneau forgot to do his running. Serious! Focus!
Rhubarb_Runner  February 9, 2009, at 5:30 am  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) 2008 Documentary, baseball cards, Justin Morneau, New York Yankees
Rhubarb_Runner  January 28, 2009, at 5:30 am  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) 2008 Documentary, baseball cards, Justin Morneau, Kansas City Royals
ubelmann  December 4, 2008, at 9:07 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Casey Blake, David Cameron, Defensive Statistics, Justin Morneau, RZR, Sample Size, The Hold Steady, Torii Hunter
David Cameron is a good baseball analyst (or I wouldn't bother critiquing him), but I think he's dead wrong about this.
There always seems to be a crowd that is skeptical that anything could be quantified, just because the possibility for error exists. With defensive stats, the question always comes up about whether or not one man's line drive is another man's fliner or if someone collecting data is going to say a ball hit deep in the infield instead of in the shallow outfield. And I'm quite certain that people collecting the data make mistakes from time-to-time. The question that no one bothers to answer is how often those people make mistakes and how much those mistakes matter. There's a good reason no one answers these questions--we don't get to watch the play-by-play scorers from Baseball Info Solutions (or whichever your favorite service is) in action so we can't really say one way or another how well they are doing.
My major beef, though, is with the idea that no human error is involved in the collection of offensive statistics.
When we talk about something like on base percentage, it is a statistic based on indisputable factual results - Player X reached base Y times in Z plate appearances. There’s no gray area - it happened, it was recorded, and no one disagrees.
Emphasis mine. Anyone who has ever watched a baseball game (including David Cameron) knows that this is incorrect, whether or not they realize it. Nearly every game, an umpire makes a call that someone doesn't like. Hell, umpires made enough bad calls on HR/not HR that we've decided to institute a replay system whose very existence proves that people doubt the supposedly "indisputable" nature of offensive statistics. In the case of nationally televised games, not only do some people disagree with the recorded result, but sometimes millions of people disagree with the recorded outcome.
And if we talk about hits, which every offensive valuation system known to man includes, we have to start worrying about whether or not a scorekeeper decided that a batted ball should be a hit or an error. Even just limiting the jury to sports broadcasters, it is clear that not everyone agrees with the decisions that scorekeepers make.
The only reason that anyone actually believes that these are the "incontrovertible facts" is that we've all agreed ahead of time who gets to make the decisions. This is tantamount to saying that if MLB were to choose Baseball Info Solutions as its official batted ball judgment team that suddenly defensive statistics would become "incontrovertible facts."
So, there is human error in taking the data that records defensive and offensive stats, but guess what? THAT'S OKAY. That some human error exists in collecting the data does not inherently make it the most important source of variability in the statistics that we collect.
There are a few reasons that I am really comfortable in saying that the variability in defensive statistics is not mainly due to human error in the data collection:
1. Yes, some defensive stats disagree on which defenders are good and which are bad, but these differences exist even for stats that use the same exact set of data, whether it is from BIS or whoever. My intuition is that because none of these stats are really open source, and some are highly proprietary, we're not really advancing towards a consensus on how to value the various bits of information that we are given. (From a personal standpoint, I kind of get this--it's much more fun to tinker around with the formulas to improve them than it is to sit down, spell everything out (anyone who has had to write documentation knows that it is not fun), cut through all of the erroneous criticisms to get to the real criticisms, and make the hard choices on where you were wrong and should incorporate someone else's viewpoint.)
2. Not all of the all-inclusive offensive stats give us the same picture of how valuable a hitter is. If our offensive stats, supposedly built on infallible data, can disagree, it seems as though we are holding defensive stats to an unfair standard.
3. Sample size.
4. Sample size.
5. Sample size.
6. Sample size.
7. Sample size.
8. Sample size.
9. Sample size.
10. Sample size.
Let me expound a bit, using Justin Morneau, everyone's favorite Kent Hrbek clone. RZR is one of the most straightforward defensive stats that I consider to be reasonable (though it's not really as good as +/- or UZR.) If you track each kind of batted ball for a season, you can figure out which types of batted balls are fielded by a particular fielder over 50% of the time. RZR then defines that as the fielder's zone. RZR is the number of successful plays made (Plays) on balls in the fielder's zone divided by the total number of balls in that zone (BIZ). After that, the Hardball Times also reports plays made out of the defender's zone (OOZ). For Morneau over the last five years, we have:
| Year |
BIZ |
Plays |
RZR |
OOZ |
| 2004 |
60 |
46 |
.767 |
20 |
| 2005 |
132 |
120 |
.909 |
42 |
| 2006 |
128 |
98 |
.766 |
71 |
| 2007 |
223 |
171 |
.767 |
18 |
| 2008 |
183 |
128 |
.699 |
22 |
The average RZR in 2008 for all first basemen was .739. Overall, Morneau looks pretty good compared to that average, coming in at a five-year average of .776 and beating the average in all but last year. Three of the five RZR's are actually remarkably similar to one another.
But what I want to focus on here is his total opportunities. Over five seasons, where he compiled over 2,500 cumulative at-bats, Morneau had a mere 726 balls in his zone--726 plays where an average first baseman had a better-than-even shot at making the play. That's only 145 chances per season.
Now let's look at Morneau's hits and extra-base hits from 2007-8 if we divide his at-bats to somewhere close to a 60/132/128/223/183 breakdown. (Span is the span of games I chose. 463-496, for instance, means Morneau's 463rd through 496th major league career games played.)
| AB |
H |
AVG |
XBH |
Span |
| 60 |
18 |
.300 |
7 |
(413-428) |
| 134 |
37 |
.276 |
18 |
(439-462) |
| 130 |
41 |
.315 |
17 |
(463-496) |
| 222 |
56 |
.252 |
22 |
(497-555) |
| 181 |
48 |
.265 |
12 |
(556-606) |
Now here we have Morneau's average split up into comparable sample sizes to his defensive data, and all the sudden his incontrovertible batting average is jumping all over the place. Is he an average hitter or a superstar? Apparently batting average--really at the heart of all offensive stats out there--is a completely useless statistic that has been completely soiled by the human error of umpires misjudging safe/out calls.
Certainly I can find positions with larger sample sizes. [Okay, it looks like first base is the lowest, which I should have suspected because that's where everyone puts their worst defender, the Cardinals notwithstanding.] Center fielders and middle infielders tend to get more opportunities than anyone else (which is at the heart of why they are the most important positions, but says nothing in and of itself about how difficult they are to play), but even then, the effective sample sizes are pretty small.
If we look at MLB as a whole at each position, here are the number of BIZ per 140 games played (estimated as 8.5 innings per game.)
BIZ/140G -- Position
352 -- 2B
350 -- SS
292 -- 3B
288 -- CF
241 -- RF
228 -- LF
180 -- 1B
I nearly went into a huge RZR tangent, but I'm here to talk sample size. At best, we're looking at about 352 data points*, and some positions are clearly going to be more problematic than others. For fairness, I'll re-run the Morneau analysis, but with Torii Hunter.
*My tangent would have involved talking about how at some positions there are more "gimme" plays than there are at others, so not every BIZ is equally useful to us.
| Year |
BIZ |
Plays |
RZR |
OOZ |
| 2004 |
287 |
236 |
.822 |
65 |
| 2005 |
222 |
185 |
.833 |
33 |
| 2006 |
330 |
295 |
.894 |
48 |
| 2007 |
384 |
342 |
.891 |
47 |
| 2008 |
289 |
257 |
.889 |
93 |
Note that the average RZR for centerfielders in 2008 was .922, and they had on average 80 OOZ plays per 140 games (with games estimated as 8.5 innings per game.) Now if we take the first approximately 287/222/330/384/289 AB's from those seasons, we get:
| AB |
H |
AVG |
XBH |
Span |
| 288 |
78 |
.271 |
34 |
(692-768) |
| 220 |
61 |
.277 |
26 |
(830-886) |
| 329 |
90 |
.274 |
28 |
(928-1016) |
| 382 |
110 |
.288 |
50 |
(1075-1178) |
| 287 |
81 |
.282 |
32 |
(1235-1309) |
Torii's actually pretty consistent with these endpoints, basically as consistent as his season totals. Then again, his RZR is fairly consistent, too, if you accept that something changed between '05 and '06. I'd like to use his injury history to explain that away, but '06 was the season where he probably played the most games while clearly hobbled with an injury. (Though in general, I think his play in the field suffered from him playing through injuries.)
At any rate, in the very best case scenario, you're looking at about half the sample size for defense that you get on offense, and on top of that, I think there are a lot of plays out there (especially in the outfield) that don't inform us as much as a typical at-bat. We can sit back and blame STATS or BIS all day, but ultimately I see no reason to blame them for the variability--we just have less data to work with and we need to figure out how to work under that limitation.
Last but not least---There is still time to let Casey Blake walk, Bill Smith. Back out while you can! I know it stings when you let one get away, but remember the sage words of The Hold Steady: There's always other boys, and you can make them like you!
SBG  November 18, 2008, at 1:17 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Dustin Pedroia, Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Major League Baseball
WTF?
That's Morneau's line in September and it's a big reason why Dustin Pedroia won the AL MVP. Of course, I think Joe Mauer should have won it, but what do I know. Mauer did finish fourth, which is higher than expected, so woo hoo! to that.
SBG  August 21, 2008, at 8:00 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Carlos Gutierrez, Joe Mauer, Jon Lackey, Justin Morneau, Los Angeles Angels, Scott Baker, Shooter Hunt, Torii Hunter
Game time: 9:05 PM CDT
Scheduled Starters: Scott "Light Rail" Baker (21st Start, 119.7IP, 4.11xFIP) v. Jon Lackey (18th Start, 120.3IP, 3.96xFIP)
I was listening to KSTP on a Sunday morning back in March and Patrick Reusse proclaimed that Delmon Young would have better numbers than Torii Hunter in 2008. I don't know what I was doing at the time -- I think I was making breakfast or cleaning the kitchen or something, but whatever it was I stopped to let out a good belly laugh. I mean, I not exactly Torii's biggest fan, but that doesn't mean that I don't know that at this point in time, Torii > Dell-MON.
Torii's first season in LA to this point has been pretty close to his 2006 campaign, which is to say he's been pretty good. At the time of this writing, Torii's got a career high (although not by much) .341 OBP and a pretty good .490 slugging percentage. He's looking like he'll play about 150 games, so he's been pretty valuable. In fact, his 28.5 VORP is second only to Vlad Guerrero's 29.0 VORP on the Angels (on the offensive side -- Ervin Santana, Joe Sanders, and John Lackey also have better VORPs than Hunter). Dell-MON? Eh, he's a work in progress.
So, yep, Torii's a good ballplayer, but let's not get all misty eyed. He's still not (and never will be) the equal of the Twins two young studs, Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau. Each of these guys are worth about 1.5 wins more than Hunter at the plate -- and since neither of them appears to be headed, based on their age, into decline over the next four plus years, giving them big bucks as opposed to $90 million to Hunter was the right move. It's probably also true that the Angels are probably not yet regretting that contract, not like say, the contract that they handed Gary Matthews, Jr. or the one that the Mariners handed Carlos Silva. The Twins may have found an heir apparent in Hunter's old buddy Denard Span, so it seems that Hunter signing with the Angels has turned out okay for both teams. Plus, it seems that the Twins might have something in Shooter Hunt, one of the two picks that they got for Hunter in the 2008 draft. The other one, Carlos Gutierrez, was widely panned at The WGOM (college closer with one pitch? whaa?) when he was picked, but he's off to a decent start. I thought that the Twins were going to make him a starter, but he's been used exclusively as a reliever in Fort Myers (Hunt is at low A Beloit).
As I'm sure you are aware, the Twins are starting a mammoth 15 day, 14 game trip, which is apparently their longest road trip since 1969. I doubt that Mauer and Morneau will be auditioning for a job in any of these four cities (like a certain center fielder seemed to do in every city last year), unless you count their performance on the field. Let's hope that in that regard, they have the other teams drooling over the prospect of someday in the future maybe having a shot at their services.
Go Twins!
SBG  August 17, 2008, at 2:12 pm  - (Sorry, but the time to add LTEs has expired) Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, WGOM Radio
Inspired by Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau's clutch hits in the ninth inning against a left hander on Saturday, I took a little look at the Twins two stars.
WGOM Radio #2
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Cup of Coffee  50 LTEs
Wolves lose again by 22, Kevin Love down to 17 minutes. This is the worst possible situation for the Wolves. They are driving what is left of their fan base with a tremendous stretch of terrible basketball. Their best, or second-best, player has checked out and is getting buried on the bench. I doubt that Love is in their long term plans. How's that O.J. Mayo deal looking now?
Citizens Online 26 Users Online
Users: DK, spookymilk, hungry joe, Milt on Tilt, 18 Guests, 4 Bots
Retired WGOM Jokes
- "The Twins should have drafted Mark Prior."
Race to the Bottom: Highest Loss Totals in T-Wolves History 67: 1991-92
63: 1992-93
62: 1993-94
61: 1994-95
60: 1989-90, 2007-08
58: 2008-09
56: 1995-96
55: 2009-10
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Recent Letters to the Editor
In Response to Cup of Coffee: March 18, 2010,
Milt on Tilt wrote: That list doesn't even include Neshek, the most fan friendly of them all.
spookymilk wrote: Yeah, I love that button. My WGOM picks are the exact same as my regular bracket, except for one that I changed in order to have two chances at a perfect bracket and a…
spookymilk wrote: I'm loath to agree with Heyman, but that fivesome sure makes it look … would have to throw a wrench in that, though, right? I also met a certain reliever on several occasions who…
Milt on Tilt wrote: Who needs to play the season? We're already winners.
freealonzo wrote: And that's where I'm guessing roughly 85% of the problem currently … I don't doubt that the Union may be weighing in but how much leverage do they really have here? What if…
spookymilk wrote: It seems that part was left out because nobody wanted to tell me that my smallish stipend included the hopes that I would write the script. Oh well...if it ends up being a good…
Jeff A wrote: … but I hope you're getting more for having to write the script as well as direct.
spookymilk wrote: So I was just hired (at the last minute) to direct a comic murder mystery at an auction/benefit next month, and a couple of days after I was hired, the auction planners finally decided to…
Milt on Tilt wrote: Also, Carlos Gomez hits an overwhelming .192 in 2010 and never fully develops that power either, maxing at 11 in a season (that he also hits .235). Hardy does rebound but only a bit. He…
SBG wrote: Kansas over Calipari's … of the reason I did it is because there was a button that allowed me to do it with one click!
In Response to Nightmares at WGOMville,
Beau wrote: And Joe being full of the Holy Ghost returned from New York, and was led by the Spirit into St. Paul, 2Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat…
spookymilk wrote: Oh, well done, … read this passage to Mauer, stat!
Milt on Tilt wrote: I guess that's where our disagreement arises. I'm comparing him to the next available option rather than the league average or something. He was a +0.4 WAR (whoopdy-do) but the Twins replacement level was below…
DK wrote: Apparently I have higher standards than "He's not Alexi Casilla" for calling what Bill Smith does a victory.
Milt on Tilt wrote: Oh. Duh. I don't know how I forgot Pavano. Obviously that was bigger than Cabrera. But that doesn't mean Cabrera was nothing. Don't get me wrong, I hated him and his awful glove too and…
thisisbeth wrote: I simply pretended he didn't exist/had no special meaning to the team.
DK wrote: Whatever. Trading nothing for nothing isn't a victory, it's shuffling deck chairs. Pavano and Rauch (probably) were good trades, but they don't make Cabrera good by proxy.
Jeff A wrote: Mauer to the Yankees? Ridiculous. We know how this story turns out. Just read Luke 4.
Milt on Tilt wrote: And not that I'm a small sample guy, but there was …
Milt on Tilt wrote: Come to think of it, I don't think I did either. My buddies and I just kept reminding of him of his excellent play on Mark Kotsay's single …
In Response to Cup of Coffee: March 17, 2010,
Moss wrote: The old "you can't have your coke and snort it too" … can't get a conviction on a … test...and is possession of any amount of coke a felony??
hungry joe wrote: tell me about it...
brianS wrote: It is hard to consume if you do not possess.
Jeff A wrote: The people we tried to give a break to came forward and sought help, too--after they got caught. They also didn't try to deny or place blame somewhere else--that's partly why we were inclined…
SBG wrote: What are you talking about? You can't get pregnant the first …